Nate Merchant
United States
New York
New York
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I've played about six games of HIS at this point, but last night I helmed a game for newbies. I found out that I was atrociously ignorant about macro and micro areas of this game, thus the following questions. I'm sure these are all answered in the rules somewhere, but my reading comprehension has apparently been Intercepted, Assaulted, and Excommunicated. Thanks in advance!
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1) Does a pass affect units returning to a capital in winter in any way? Does a pass affect retreats in any way?
2) Am I correct in assuming that the five Hungarian units in Buda MUST meet Suleiman in a field battle, and then the remnants of that battle, if any, may retreat into the fortifications? I think I've seen this played in several correct and incorrect ways, but that's how we played last night.
3) Renegade Leader: when he "takes control" of the space near Lyon, does that mean he places a control marker down? If so, whose?
4) How do "amphibious assaults" work, in the cases of Tunis, Algiers, Rhodes, etc?
5) Can the Pope ever besiege Milan if 4 French units are stationed there? It seems that he cannot, since he would need 5+ to establish a siege, and without a leader he cannot move 5+ men. If this is true, can the Pope ever take Milan militarily?
6) When does the English Reformation actually begin? What sets it off?
7) If you win a field battle, do you automatically rip up the enemy Control Marker there, assuming there is one, or does that take an additional CP?
8) Let me get this straight: post-SLeague, electorates are special fortified spaces that must be besieged to be taken, but do not grant the "key" benefit to either side. Is that basically correct?
Thanks!
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Karl Schmit
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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Quote: 1) Does a pass affect units returning to a capital in winter in any way? Does a pass affect retreats in any way?
No. No.Quote:
2) Am I correct in assuming that the five Hungarian units in Buda MUST meet Suleiman in a field battle, and then the remnants of that battle, if any, may retreat into the fortifications?
Yes.Quote:
3) Renegade Leader: when he "takes control" of the space near Lyon, does that mean he places a control marker down? If so, whose?
The player playing the card places a control marker.Quote:
4) How do "amphibious assaults" work, in the cases of Tunis, Algiers, Rhodes, etc?
Same as regular assaults. There isn't a special "amphibious assault" in Here I Stand.Quote:
5) Can the Pope ever besiege Milan if 4 French units are stationed there? It seems that he cannot, since he would need 5+ to establish a siege, and without a leader he cannot move 5+ men. If this is true, can the Pope ever take Milan militarily?
The Pope would need a leader to move a formation with more than 4 units.Quote:
6) When does the English Reformation actually begin? What sets it off?
It starts when Henry marries Anne Boleyn. Soonest would be turn 3.Quote:
7) If you win a field battle, do you automatically rip up the enemy Control Marker there, assuming there is one, or does that take an additional CP?
You have to spend 1CP on the Control unfortified space action.Quote:
8) Let me get this straight: post-SLeague, electorates are special fortified spaces that must be besieged to be taken, but do not grant the "key" benefit to either side. Is that basically correct?
If by "key" benefit you mean "take a square control marker from your power card and place it on the map" then that is basically correct. Remember that each electorate is worth 1 VP for the Hapsburgs if they have political control and 2 VP for the Protestants if they have political AND religious control.
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Natus wrote: I've played about six games of HIS at this point, but last night I helmed a game for newbies. I found out that I was atrociously ignorant about macro and micro areas of this game, thus the following questions. I'm sure these are all answered in the rules somewhere, but my reading comprehension has apparently been Intercepted, Assaulted, and Excommunicated. Thanks in advance!
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1) Does a pass affect units returning to a capital in winter in any way? Does a pass affect retreats in any way?
No and no. Passes may used for wintering and retreats. Passes may not be Spring Deployed through or intercepted across.
Quote:
2) Am I correct in assuming that the five Hungarian units in Buda MUST meet Suleiman in a field battle, and then the remnants of that battle, if any, may retreat into the fortifications? I think I've seen this played in several correct and incorrect ways, but that's how we played last night.
You are correct. They won't evade, and can't fit in the walls so they fight.
Quote:
3) Renegade Leader: when he "takes control" of the space near Lyon, does that mean he places a control marker down? If so, whose?
Whoever plays the card. He's working for that power for the turn.
Quote:
4) How do "amphibious assaults" work, in the cases of Tunis, Algiers, Rhodes, etc?
LOC can be traced with ships, allowing an assault. Don't lose, though. If you lose enough units so that you can't maintain the siege, there is no retreat path and remaining units/leaders are captured. Otherwise, it's a normal assault.
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5) Can the Pope ever besiege Milan if 4 French units are stationed there? It seems that he cannot, since he would need 5+ to establish a siege, and without a leader he cannot move 5+ men. If this is true, can the Pope ever take Milan militarily?
The Pope can use the Renegade Leader to command six troops. Otherwise, no.
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6) When does the English Reformation actually begin? What sets it off?
Marrying Anne Boleyn sets it off, either by receiving the divorce or by advancing to her space on the wives track. It begins the turn after Henry marries Anne. Spaces may be flipped in England by the Protestant and Papal player before that, but the Protestant needs a North Sea port in Germany to make that happen. The English may not publish treatises without Cranmer on the map, he appears as part of the English Reformation .
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7) If you win a field battle, do you automatically rip up the enemy Control Marker there, assuming there is one, or does that take an additional CP?
It takes a CP to control an unfortified space, even if you won a field battle there. Fortified spaces need to be assaulted, obviously.
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8) Let me get this straight: post-SLeague, electorates are special fortified spaces that must be besieged to be taken, but do not grant the "key" benefit to either side. Is that basically correct?
Basically. They are not keys, but they are fortified. Their value is 2VP to the Prots (only if the Prots have religious control as well) and 1VP to the Hapsburg. To all other powers, they are worth 0VP. They do not count as keys for card draws or military auto-wins, so they use hex markers instead of square ones from the power cards.
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Heh. Well, at least we're in agreement as we both type away.
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Robert Schwieger
United States
Eugene
Oregon
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I guess I'm confused with the movement/siege rules. What prevents the Pope from moving two separate forces into Milan to outnumber the French and establish a siege?
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Nate Merchant
United States
New York
New York
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HannibalUltor wrote: I guess I'm confused with the movement/siege rules. What prevents the Pope from moving two separate forces into Milan to outnumber the French and establish a siege?
Robert, that's exactly what our Pope did in our game before my brain kicked in a day later. Since an attacker needs to outnumber a defender to maintain a siege, and since the Pope has no leaders to lead more than four units at a time, this means the Pope can't even start a siege when 4 French troops are inside the walls of Milan. The four Papal units would simply--so I conjecture--bounce off the walls, and so the combining of besieging forces in Milan could never happen.
Of course, if the Pope assaulted Milan early on before France could reinforce, or through card play depleted the garrison, then he could besiege Milan with 4 units.
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Robert Schwieger
United States
Eugene
Oregon
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Thanks for the response. I thought that the 4 limitation mattered only for movement, but after rechecking the rules it applies to assault as well. What happens when a force ineligible to besiege enters a fortified space and the defender goes behind the walls? Do they have to keep moving? What if they don't have any remaining CP? Or do they just stay in the space without besieging.
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Aaron Cappocchi
United States
Los Angeles
California
Watch me on June 8th!
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Natus wrote: Since an attacker needs to outnumber a defender to maintain a siege, and since the Pope has no leaders to lead more than four units at a time, this means the Pope can't even start a siege when 4 French troops are inside the walls of Milan. The four Papal units would simply--so I conjecture--bounce off the walls, and so the combining of besieging forces in Milan could never happen.
Your conjecture is correct. See rule 13.4, where the very last bit explains that if the French withdraw into the fortifications, the Pope has two choices: 1) keep moving, spending additional CP, or 2) retreat back to the space he entered from.
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Jason Johns
United States
Unspecified
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Not Sure wrote: Natus wrote: I've played about six games of HIS at this point, but last night I helmed a game for newbies. I found out that I was atrociously ignorant about macro and micro areas of this game, thus the following questions. I'm sure these are all answered in the rules somewhere, but my reading comprehension has apparently been Intercepted, Assaulted, and Excommunicated. Thanks in advance!
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1) Does a pass affect units returning to a capital in winter in any way? Does a pass affect retreats in any way?
No and no. Passes may used for wintering and retreats. Passes may not be Spring Deployed through or intercepted across.
A pass also affects the ability to place a control marker.
No Interception across a pass.
Quote: Quote:
2) Am I correct in assuming that the five Hungarian units in Buda MUST meet Suleiman in a field battle, and then the remnants of that battle, if any, may retreat into the fortifications? I think I've seen this played in several correct and incorrect ways, but that's how we played last night.
You are correct. They won't evade, and can't fit in the walls so they fight.
Also, unless the Ottomans bypassed Belgrade, as long as they win the battle, and I have seen them not win...     and kill more than 2 guys, then the Hungarians will be conquered by special rules. 22.5 So, they won't even go into the walls.
As the Ottoman, I ALWAYS have my home card uplayed and available during the battle of Buda. That way I can use, if forced too to do so, to gain the extra five dice if I flub the roll.
Quote: Quote:
8) Let me get this straight: post-SLeague, electorates are special fortified spaces that must be besieged to be taken, but do not grant the "key" benefit to either side. Is that basically correct?
Basically. They are not keys, but they are fortified. Their value is 2VP to the Prots (only if the Prots have religious control as well) and 1VP to the Hapsburg. To all other powers, they are worth 0VP. They do not count as keys for card draws or military auto-wins, so they use hex markers instead of square ones from the power cards.
Correct. This is a whole subgame within HIS. If the Prot is winning others can take an electorate just to deny the space to the Prots. (I've seen the French do it, but more likely is the Papacy.) And you may not necessarily want to give it to the Haps player if he is pushing the 25VP position. This is similar to the Prot taking a Key. Useless to him, but important to others.
So, how does the Papacy do get guys up there? By SD! To actually take an electorate, this must take place after the SL, of course. Firstly, gain a LOC from Rome - Ravenna then up to Hapsburgs lands. This can be done by gaining Venice or transiting the Adriatic with no hostile ships. You can move up four units with no leader. Move them to the closest Haps-controlled space. March into the Electorate and take it. Now you have someplace to retreat your forces during winter! (This is important if you
I've also seen the Papacy play the fortress counter on a space up in Germany. Of course the Haps ceded a "useless" German space to the Papacy.
Anyway, the benefit of SD'ing Papal troops up to Germany even pre-SL is with a few CPs you can spread 1, 2, or 3 Papal troops into up to 4 spaces. Watch that slow down the Reformation.
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Kristian Thy
Germany
Bonn
Nordrhein-Westfalen
Together, we are the United Nations
Gunulfr ok Øgotr ok Aslakr ok Rolfr resþu sten þænsi æftir Ful, felaga sin, ær warþ ... døþr, þa kunungar barþusk.
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iamspamus wrote: transiting the Adriatic with no hostile ships.
It is worth noting that neutral Venetian ships do not block SD across the Adriatic. Habsburg-aligned Venetian ships do (but then you can most likely just use the land connection), as do an Ottoman ship in e.g. Durazzo.
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Steven
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
No women, no kids.
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turbothy wrote: iamspamus wrote: transiting the Adriatic with no hostile ships. It is worth noting that neutral Venetian ships do not block SD across the Adriatic. Habsburg-aligned Venetian ships do (but then you can most likely just use the land connection), as do an Ottoman ship in e.g. Durazzo.
Exactly only fleets controlled by Major powers prevent Spring Deployment, so a controlled neutrals forces do count. Only unaligned Scottish, Genoese and Venetian fleets can be ignored during the spring SD phase.
However the handy event card, Spring Deployment does allow to ignore this restriction, as well as cross passes, and move more than five units by one sea (you would need a leader to do this last one anyway).
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Nate Merchant
United States
New York
New York
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Thanks, all! And that's a fascinating concept for the Papal player: take Florence and all the spaces over the Alps and into Germany. Park units in non-Electorates and make life hell for the Prot. Once the SL hits, kill the Prot units and besiege Electorates. I really don't see how the Adriatic figures into it, but it's nice to know that option is there.
Further questions, if I may:
1) Is it true that you can move 5 units across the water without a leader but only a max of 4 across land without a leader? Why the discrepancy?
2) So if a force retreats into fortifications, an enemy force can move through the space without leaving screening battalions?
3) OK, so I'm the Ottomans, and I'm going to demolish Rhodes. On my first impulse of a Turn, I play a 3 CP card: one point puts a fleet into the Aegean, two more CPs move my army from Istanbul to Rhodes where I establish a siege. Next impulse, I use 1 CP to assault the fortress at Rhodes, and if that doesn't work I use subsequent impulses to assault the walls. However, if I take grievous losses and I can no longer maintain the siege, the last unit is thrown into the sea. Is that about right?
Thanks!
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1) No. Moving across water is 5 units max *with* a leader, or 4 without. Moving across water is still subject to the basic movement rules and command limits.
2). Only if the forces are of equal size, which is a weird corner case rule. If the active player has fewer, he must retreat. If he has enough to maintain the siege, he must halt and besiege the fortified space.
3). Yes, exactly correct. Take 5 regulars and a leader to assault Rhodes, since cavalry don't add dice to assault rolls. The 4 dice you get from 5R+Ibrahim should be enough to boot those pesky Knights in 1 impulse.
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Kristian Thy
Germany
Bonn
Nordrhein-Westfalen
Together, we are the United Nations
Gunulfr ok Øgotr ok Aslakr ok Rolfr resþu sten þænsi æftir Ful, felaga sin, ær warþ ... døþr, þa kunungar barþusk.
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Natus wrote: And that's a fascinating concept for the Papal player: take Florence and all the spaces over the Alps and into Germany. Park units in non-Electorates and make life hell for the Prot. Once the SL hits, kill the Prot units and besiege Electorates. I really don't see how the Adriatic figures into it, but it's nice to know that option is there
The Adriatic figures into it in the sense that, if allied to the Habsburg, you can deploy from Ravenna to Trieste across the Adriatic and from there up to Vienna and take the first left turn into Germany proper. No need to spend ops to flag Trent and slog across the Alps (which you can't cross with normal SD anyway!).
Not Sure wrote: 2). Only if the forces are of equal size, which is a weird corner case rule. If the active player has fewer, he must retreat. If he has enough to maintain the siege, he must halt and besiege the fortified space.
Wot? The distinction in the rules is whether the active formation has more units than the enemy formation which has just withdrawn inside the fortifications (rules p19, right hand column). If it doesn't, it must either retreat to whence it came (for free) or spend CP to "bounce" and keep moving.
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Huh, you're right. Smaller or equal forces may spend CP to move through if the enemy retreats into fortifications. Larger forces will still halt movement to place the space the under siege, of course.
I'd always thought smaller forces would be required to retreat, but I can't say I've ever seen it come up. It's fairly rare to see someone charge a fort with a smaller force than the defenders, I've only ever seen this rule come up in someplace like Florence or Milan, usually at 4-4.
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