Willard BJ Lillo
United States
Waukesha
Wisconsin
Bastion of Internet Rectitude
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It looks like Dear Leader's attempts to prop up the green energy industry with money forcibly extracted from taxpayers is failing miserably. We all know about Solyndra and the $500+ million reward to a big Obama fundraiser to a company that failed. Last week there were three other companies who had received stimulus funds that either went bankrupt or had massive layoffs.
Evergreen Energy, a developer of alternative fuel products, filed for bankruptcy last week. They had received $10's of millions to build their facility from the stimulus.
Ener1, a company which received a $118 million grant from the stimulus to "promote renewable energy storage battery technology for electrical grid use" declared bankruptcy last week as well.
Much like celebrity deaths, it appears that stimulus-backed energy company failures also come in three's. Amonix, a solar panel company based in Las Vegas, is laying off 200 people, many of whom were hired as shortly as three months ago. To be fair to them, they do say that the layoffs are temporary as they get ready for a new product. That information is news, however, to the people who were hired a couple of months ago and then laid off.
It's unfortunate that taxpayers have to foot the bill for these failed adventures in green stimulus.
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bjlillo wrote: Well, just last month Amonix was held up as a success story before they laid off all those people, so it's hard to say who is succeeding.
It can't be that hard, there must be records of what companies are doing well. It must at least be as easy as finding those who are failing.
Either way, judging a project only by it's failures is obviously not a good idea.
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Rich Hussein Shipley
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
By some definitions, gaming is my religion
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bjlillo wrote:
So do you agree with this part of the article as well?
Quote: Green products and technology need government support. We’ve given so much to high-carbon fuels and infrastructure that they have a built-in advantage, but we can’t afford to depend upon them in the future. If we want to give green energy real political legs, policymakers need to be sure that the middle class gets some of the green goodies that can save money: more efficient vehicles, household solar panels or water heaters, energy-efficiency upgrades.
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King Ævil
South Euclid
Ohio
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Ah, yes, Solyndra—yet another false controversy blown way out of proportion by the right wing to undermine support for renewable energy.
What's $500M compared to the annual $20B of government subsidies for the fossil fuel industries?
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Willard Zelvis
United States
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robigo wrote: Ah, yes, Solyndra—yet another false controversy blown way out of proportion by the right wing to undermine support for renewable energy. What's $500M compared to the annual $20B of government subsidies for the fossil fuel industries?
Here is a probably a little more informed story, from ABC news, nonetheless
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/emails-obama-white-house-monit...
Shows that the Bush adminsitration denied the loan. Also, you get this little quote
Quote: Peter Lynch, a New York-based solar energy analyst, told ABC News it took only a cursory glance through Solyndra's prospectus to see there was a problem with their numbers.
"It's very difficult to perceive a company with a model that says, well, I can build something for six dollars and sell it for three dollars," Lynch said. "Those numbers don't generally work. You don't want to lose three dollars for every unit you make."
Altogether, it shows a process that is probably too rushed and not as thoughtout. Given how bad the credit rating was "non-investment" grade by Fitch, it does make one wonder why this particular firm was chosen above others.
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Scott Russell
United States
Clarkston
Michigan
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Dolphinandrew wrote: bjlillo wrote: Well, just last month Amonix was held up as a success story before they laid off all those people, so it's hard to say who is succeeding. It can't be that hard, there must be records of what companies are doing well. It must at least be as easy as finding those who are failing. Either way, judging a project only by it's failures is obviously not a good idea.
Well, if it's not that hard, point to some for us!
I actually am involved in an outside business that makes (only prototypes so far) transmissions that are aimed primarily at electric/hybrid vehicles. All of our potential customers' bottom lines depend heavily on subsidies. (A higher up in GM when asked about the high cost of the Volt cheerfully volunteered to sell the questioner as many as he wanted at cost instead.  )
As to the fossil fuels subsidies, I agree that they should be eliminated as well. We should pay actual costs for our fuel. (But, I suspect that will be regarded as regressive by most liberals)
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Daniel Edwards
United Kingdom
London
Unspecified
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A lot of money has certainly been questionably spent in relation to renewables worldwide.
For panel manufacturers though a lot of pressure is coming from the Chinese who've invested heavily in polysilicon supply and put a lot of supply out there lowering prices at a time when demand is also dipping (partly because suddenly cash strapped first world countries are looking to cut renewable spend). They're taking losses but sustained with government funds are looking to take a stranglehold when other players (polysilicon and module supply) are forced out.
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Lynette
United States
Richland
Washington
Yep, I am a girl Scientist. Come for the breasts; Stay for the brains!
For as long as I shall live I will testify to love; I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough.
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rshipley wrote: bjlillo wrote: So do you agree with this part of the article as well? Quote: Green products and technology need government support. We’ve given so much to high-carbon fuels and infrastructure that they have a built-in advantage, but we can’t afford to depend upon them in the future. If we want to give green energy real political legs, policymakers need to be sure that the middle class gets some of the green goodies that can save money: more efficient vehicles, household solar panels or water heaters, energy-efficiency upgrades.
I entirely agree that the BEST thing he government can do to give green energy legs is to help the middle class BUY GREEN.
That is what got Hybrid cars onto the road and made them profitable.
That is what will get home solar etc into homes as well.
I would note that literally months before my house burned I was in process to converting much of my new home to solar.
But the capital outlay was a kicker. EVEN THOUGH over the long haul it would have saved me a lot of money.
As an engineer I had the capital to do it, and was researching which options were best for my area. I was starting with a water heater.
The things I found were going to cost me about 3-5,000 to get installed, which is a huge outlay for a water heater.
However it would have dropped my water heating bill from an estimated $550 per year to under $50 per year.
So in six to ten years I should have started recouping my money. Since the heater and system had about a 10 year warranty and since I needed a new water heater and was going to have to outlay $800 anyway it seemed to me to be the time to go for it.
In the long run it would have saved me money AND been good for the environment.
However MOST people literally don't have six years worth of electric bill savings "laying around" to FRONT the new technology.
This is where the government could really help achieve two good goals at once. By offering substantial tax credits and/or very low interest loans to people who "go green" on their own in various ways, capitalism is served AND and strides are made to wean us as a nation off of oil.
The companies who make the BEST PRODUCTS get rewarded with business (Not the companies who are politically connected) and actual functioning systems start taking the load off our power grid.
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