Learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim..
United States
Cleveland Heights
Ohio
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That's the beauty of charter schools, you get the low performance of public schools without any of the accountability.
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Donald Hargnett
United States
New Alexandria
Pennsylvania
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Quote: Madison Academy on Friday referred calls to Will Kneer, vice president of Romine Group Inc., in Utica, which manages the school.
The school's student handbook posted on the district's website requires boys' hair to be "clean, neat, free of unnatural or distracting colors, off the collar, off the ears and out of the eyes."
Since his hair isn't very long yet, Kneer said he proposed that Gaskins use styling gel, put the hair in cornrows or simply comb it to comply with the rules.
"I need his hair out of his eyes and off the collar," Kneer told the Associated Press. "I really want this boy to be back in school. I feel like combing his hair wouldn't be a big concession … He doesn't have hair down the middle of his back. It's an inch over his collar."
Gaskins said the recommendation for cornrows "doesn't even sound like a compromise."
When not combing your hair is outlawed, only outlaws won't comb their hair.
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Josh M
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
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I'm going to assume that the school's policy is unfairly sexist. Here's a picture from their homepage:
Girls with long hair is ok but a male cannot? Since this is a public school, I would hope that the ACLU will step up.
That said, I looked into the Locks of Love financial accounting bit and was pleasantly surprised with the management. The Chief Executive : Linda Borum, General Manager Compensation*: $56,952 (source: http://www.bbb.org/charity-reviews/national/children-and-you...)
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KNOWN GOOD
United States
St. Paul
Minnesota
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Organize a protest. Solicit the other parents to sign a petition to change the policy with the ultimatum that they will pull enrollment if the school does not comply. Get 10-20% of the school to drop enrollment and they'll have to listen, their funding will go away overnight.
People used to fight for what was right themselves, instead of complaining to the press and hoping the ACLU will come fight their battle.
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nothing but static
New Zealand
Unspecified
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Shushnik wrote: Organize a protest. Solicit the other parents to sign a petition to change the policy with the ultimatum that they will pull enrollment if the school does not comply. Get 10-20% of the school to drop enrollment and they'll have to listen, their funding will go away overnight.
People used to fight for what was right themselves, instead of complaining to the press and hoping the ACLU will come fight their battle.
Where's the book deal in that?
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Burster of Bubbles, Destroyer of Dreams.
United States
Sunnyvale
California
Just imagine the red offboard up here. I'll create it Real Soon Now...
Yes, I know a proper 18XX tile should have a tile number.
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Donald wrote: Quote: Since his hair isn't very long yet, Kneer said he proposed that Gaskins use styling gel, put the hair in cornrows or simply comb it to comply with the rules.
I'm amused by the irony -- not that long ago a US bank teller was suspended from her job for having her hair in cornrows, which went against her employer's standards for personal appearance.
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Leo Zappa
United States
Aliquippa
Pennsylvania
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bjlillo wrote: ...because of the length of his hair. He's growing it out to donate it to charity which helps cancer victims. Quote: Not long ago, J.T. Gaskins was honored on his high school's "Wall of Fame" for perfect behavior.
Now he's doing school work from home after being suspended by the governing board of his charter school over the length of his hair.
The 17-year-old leukemia survivor said he decided over the holidays to grow out his hair and donate it to Locks of Love after learning that the sister of a family friend had cancer.
In the process, officials at Madison Academy in Burton ruled Monday that Gaskins' hairstyle is violating school policy.
Despite his suspension, the teen says he isn't planning to cut his hair and hopes the board of the charter school near Flint will reconsider. Sometimes I'm amazed at the stupidity of school officials with their zero tolerance policies.
Just another example of the stupidity of the "zero tolerance" policy mind-set that has run amok in the USA's school systems. Here is a nice blog entry on this subject:
http://ethicsalarms.com/2011/07/19/shocking-report-zero-tole...
I especially like the final paragraph:
The “do something” response to a tragedy appears to be beyond eradication, imbedded as it is in human nature and the lower reaches of the IQ scale. Standing up to the mob and telling it to calm down, stop panicking, and consider consequences is the responsibility of school boards, administrators and elected officials, and, alas, that takes competence and courage.
We don’t have enough of either.
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Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
I like to exchange ideas but I have no interest in a pissing contest.
If you want me to review your game, just GM me and send me a copy. Abstracts, wargames and euros equally welcome. No party or dexterity games please.
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bjlillo wrote: TheChin! wrote: That's the beauty of charter schools, you get the low performance of public schools without any of the accountability. What are you talking about? Charter schools have more accountability than public schools. If you aren't performing up to the parents' standards, the kids go to a different school.
As a teacher, I can tell you that with a few exceptions, this is bunk.
Parents are far more likely to go elsewhere if as a teacher I would refuse to simply pass their kid and insist that the child actually do work for and in class than if I did the opposite. People have come to think of teachers as glorified babysitters and that's how they treat them.
Why are US schools crap? For the most part, it's because that's exactly what parents demand constantly. Oh, they'll swear up and down they want good schools, but what teachers do they complain about? The ones that actually try to teach. What teachers do they praise? The ones that let the kids get away with murder and pass them with A's for it.
The best school system in the US I was ever involved with as either a student or a teacher was one in Texas that was dirt poor in a town where I'm entirely certain mine was the only family who was entirely there legally and only one of a couple of families which did not speak Spanish at home. Yet they had come to the US desperate because they had no education and so could not support their families. They were adamant that they would not let their children be in the same situation and so stood for no nonsense in the schools.
People get want they demand for their tax dollars, and what they say loudly locally is predominately that they want crappy schools and will not tolerate anything else. What they say at a federal level is just so much worthless noise.
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Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
I like to exchange ideas but I have no interest in a pissing contest.
If you want me to review your game, just GM me and send me a copy. Abstracts, wargames and euros equally welcome. No party or dexterity games please.
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bjlillo wrote: Moshe, sounds like a byproduct of the self-esteem movement I've come to loathe so much over the years. I'm glad my parents weren't worried about that (well, at least my dad wasn't.)
That and the idea that "Oh, no, my child would never _______________; the teacher must just be picking on my child." Yes, in exceptionally rare cases that happens but it's so rare that it's not really worth mentioning and certainly shouldn't be assumed right off the bat.
I had a punk threaten me because I had to have him escorted to the dean's office because he was disrupting class so much other kids were looking at him like he was nuts and possibly dangerous. The parent insisted her angel would never do such a thing.
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Christopher Bird
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
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whac3 wrote: That and the idea that "Oh, no, my child would never _______________; the teacher must just be picking on my child." Yes, in exceptionally rare cases that happens but it's so rare that it's not really worth mentioning and certainly shouldn't be assumed right off the bat.
Honestly, I don't think parents who want their children to get most success (e.g. As) with least trouble even think about spoiling the children or the quality of their education at all. It's become quite evident over the last decade that the concept of the meritocracy is largely dead in society: what matters is the appearance of merit rather than substance.
If I'm a parent, what is most valuable to my children is achieving what society wants - since that will give them the best chance at a happy, low-stress life - and what society wants is appearance. It has made this quite clear. Why smack parents around for working the system as best they can?
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Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
I like to exchange ideas but I have no interest in a pissing contest.
If you want me to review your game, just GM me and send me a copy. Abstracts, wargames and euros equally welcome. No party or dexterity games please.
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mightygodking wrote: whac3 wrote: That and the idea that "Oh, no, my child would never _______________; the teacher must just be picking on my child." Yes, in exceptionally rare cases that happens but it's so rare that it's not really worth mentioning and certainly shouldn't be assumed right off the bat. Honestly, I don't think parents who want their children to get most success (e.g. As) with least trouble even think about spoiling the children or the quality of their education at all. It's become quite evident over the last decade that the concept of the meritocracy is largely dead in society: what matters is the appearance of merit rather than substance. If I'm a parent, what is most valuable to my children is achieving what society wants - since that will give them the best chance at a happy, low-stress life - and what society wants is appearance. It has made this quite clear. Why smack parents around for working the system as best they can?
Case in point.
This kind of attitude-- not just the notion that form matters over substance but the acceptance of that idea as normal-- is exactly why the US school systems have gone down the tubes.
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Burster of Bubbles, Destroyer of Dreams.
United States
Sunnyvale
California
Just imagine the red offboard up here. I'll create it Real Soon Now...
Yes, I know a proper 18XX tile should have a tile number.
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whac3 wrote: This kind of attitude-- not just the notion that form matters over substance but the acceptance of that idea as normal-- is exactly why the US school systems have gone down the tubes.
There's no easy way to tell, from a student's transcript, whether they went to a school that handed out As to everyone who smiled at the teacher or whether good grades reflect good schoolwork. Thus parents want those As on the transcript to better be able compete (on appearances) with kids who went to "easy" schools. It's a race to the bottom. :-(
This is also why standardized testing is gaining in popularity in spite of the many problems it brings.
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Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
I like to exchange ideas but I have no interest in a pissing contest.
If you want me to review your game, just GM me and send me a copy. Abstracts, wargames and euros equally welcome. No party or dexterity games please.
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Morganza wrote: whac3 wrote: This kind of attitude-- not just the notion that form matters over substance but the acceptance of that idea as normal-- is exactly why the US school systems have gone down the tubes. There's no easy way to tell, from a student's transcript, whether they went to a school that handed out As to everyone who smiled at the teacher or whether good grades reflect good schoolwork. Thus parents want those As on the transcript to better be able compete (on appearances) with kids who went to "easy" schools. It's a race to the bottom. :-( This is also why standardized testing is gaining in popularity in spite of the many problems it brings.
Ys, a race to the bottom and the kids are the losers however it turns out.
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Eric Flood
United States
Sunnyvale
California
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whac3 wrote: bjlillo wrote: TheChin! wrote: That's the beauty of charter schools, you get the low performance of public schools without any of the accountability. What are you talking about? Charter schools have more accountability than public schools. If you aren't performing up to the parents' standards, the kids go to a different school. As a teacher, I can tell you that with a few exceptions, this is bunk.
As a former teacher, I can vouch for at least one charter school group.
High-school physics is offered to 6th graders; the equivalent of my third-year physics class at the University of Washington is offered to seniors. There is a similar curriculum for every subject: English, History, Biology, Chemistry, etc.
These were average kids coming in - all that is required is that they have a passion for learning. The ones who want to goof off all of the time or play a bunch of sports go elsewhere (although some sports are offered). I headed a board game club. The students' favorite games were Container and Power Grid.
Perhaps this is an exception. But such a system never would be possible with only public schools, and such great systems too often fail the interested students without the family background to support their attendance in private schools.
More accountability is always a good thing; too much can get in the way of such a program. Basis has a two-day session of studying for state standards, then takes them, has a tremendously high pass rate (they are audited every year accordingly), and moves on to more difficult material.
If the schools are failing, they need to be investigated and/or shut down. If they thrive, their success needs to be replicated as much as possible.
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Scott Russell
United States
Clarkston
Michigan
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Our public school is attended by mostly middle class (with some really well off and some not) and you have to earn your A's. Maybe it's not as hard as it used to be
 , but not all of the kids get automatic A's or even B's.
Our kids are either all A's or A's and B's, but in a recent award ceremony out of ~600 kids in the class, less than 75 had all A's and only ~150 had all A's and B's.
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KNOWN GOOD
United States
St. Paul
Minnesota
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whac3 wrote: bjlillo wrote: Moshe, sounds like a byproduct of the self-esteem movement I've come to loathe so much over the years. I'm glad my parents weren't worried about that (well, at least my dad wasn't.) That and the idea that "Oh, no, my child would never _______________; the teacher must just be picking on my child." Yes, in exceptionally rare cases that happens but it's so rare that it's not really worth mentioning and certainly shouldn't be assumed right off the bat. I had a punk threaten me because I had to have him escorted to the dean's office because he was disrupting class so much other kids were looking at him like he was nuts and possibly dangerous. The parent insisted her angel would never do such a thing.
Those are conflicting notions, that schools are going downhill sharply and that teachers should be given the benefit of the doubt when conflict arises.
I agree completely, the schools have gone downhill. I also agree that parent attitudes have been a driving force in that decline. However, the teachers are living that decline and responding as humans do. They are matching the poor attitudes. They are meeting lowered expectations instead of excelling.
I've had problems with my step-son. When I first met him my in-laws didn't respect education in the slightest and his performance in school was abysmal. It's been a tough row to hoe to get him on track to attend college, and half of the battle was with teachers that fought my efforts to hold him accountable.
His English teacher in 6th grade was the only teacher that hadn't decided he was hopeless. His performance on tests rose sharply that year. We monitored his homework as best we could because the rest of his teachers refused to communicate with us in any way. One teacher actually asked my why I cared if my son had turned in homework, implying he was a lost cause and I was wasting his time by being concerned about my son.
7th grade we changed schools because of the lack of assistance. Most of his teachers there were at least adequate, but his math teacher was Spanish immersion who couldn't fill 7 classes of Spanish math students so taught one in English. When he struggled, I asked to see his tests. Half of her questions were written in Spanglish and half of her "incorrect" marks were in error because she didn't understand mathematics nearly as much as Spanish. She refused to even discuss the issues with her understanding of mathematics. We pulled him, and he excelled in another teacher's class.
8th grade we had a teacher lose half of his assignments due to his slovenly work area. He held my son accountable for such and forced him to rework the assignments. This is getting to be a rant, so I'll stop, but I do have more examples.
There have absolutely been issues with his behavior, which we have corrected and now the kid averages 3.2 GPA, but teachers have been the problem more than half the time. I'm not trying to stump on teachers. I have met some wonderful ones in my time. They are just as susceptible to poor behavior as students, though, and bad egg teachers happen just like bad egg students. It's neither rare nor dismissible.
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Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
I like to exchange ideas but I have no interest in a pissing contest.
If you want me to review your game, just GM me and send me a copy. Abstracts, wargames and euros equally welcome. No party or dexterity games please.
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Actually, no, they're not contradictory. The schools are going downhill because parents really don't want schools to teach.
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Steve Reynolds
United States
New Hampshire
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Shushnik wrote: Organize a protest. Solicit the other parents to sign a petition to change the policy with the ultimatum that they will pull enrollment if the school does not comply. Get 10-20% of the school to drop enrollment and they'll have to listen, their funding will go away overnight.
People used to fight for what was right themselves, instead of complaining to the press and hoping the ACLU will come fight their battle.
Economic and social power are definitely more potent than legal power. You can force an outcome rather than waiting on some arbitrator to fix it.
[edit for spelling]
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Clay
United States
Alabama
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Most people in this country don't care about learning, they just want the benefits of looking like they've learned something. You don't go to university to get an education, you do it to get a job. It doesn't really matter how you get there as long as you do.
Of course, I'm sure that's all entirely unrelated to the importance our culture places on money, right?
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Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
I like to exchange ideas but I have no interest in a pissing contest.
If you want me to review your game, just GM me and send me a copy. Abstracts, wargames and euros equally welcome. No party or dexterity games please.
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The Message wrote: Most people in this country don't care about learning, they just want the benefits of looking like they've learned something. You don't go to university to get an education, you do it to get a job. It doesn't really matter how you get there as long as you do.
Of course, I'm sure that's all entirely unrelated to the importance our culture places on money, right?
Yes, as soon as education becomes about finding a job rather than educating, the system is warped irreprarably. Yes, one needs also to learn practical skills but that is not the primary goal of education nor should it be.
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Burster of Bubbles, Destroyer of Dreams.
United States
Sunnyvale
California
Just imagine the red offboard up here. I'll create it Real Soon Now...
Yes, I know a proper 18XX tile should have a tile number.
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The Message wrote: Most people in this country don't care about learning, they just want the benefits of looking like they've learned something. You don't go to university to get an education, you do it to get a job. It doesn't really matter how you get there as long as you do.
A few decades I was recommended for a promotion by my manager, my project manager, and my division manager. A corporate VP denied the promotion because I didn't have suitable academic credentials.
A BA in basket weaving would have sufficed.
This is why diploma mills continue to be profitable.
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Adrian Hague
United Kingdom
Leamington, Warwickshire
West Midlands
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blueatheart wrote: I headed a board game club. The students' favorite games were Container and Power Grid. Dude, you so deserve the 'Gaming Crusader' microbadge. Here have 8  .
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Lynette
United States
Richland
Washington
Yep, I am a girl Scientist. Come for the breasts; Stay for the brains!
For as long as I shall live I will testify to love; I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough.
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MyTwoCents wrote: qzhdad wrote: Our public school is attended by mostly middle class (with some really well off and some not) and you have to earn your A's. Maybe it's not as hard as it used to be , but not all of the kids get automatic A's or even B's. Our kids are either all A's or A's and B's, but in a recent award ceremony out of ~600 kids in the class, less than 75 had all A's and only ~150 had all A's and B's. I am a firm believer in standardised testing with bell curve grades. over a period of several years, a more of less fixed percentage of students get A's, B's, C's etc. This enables the grades to be used for the purpose grades original existed for, to work out which were the smartest kids. What possible use is a system that gives 80% of students an 'A' ? Grading exams is not about self-esteem, its about figurely out who is capable of getting through college or handling a complicated and difficult job
Actually it is supposed to measure the retained knowledge and mastered skills. If you have a great teacher who can actually get most of the students so engaged that they retain 90% or more of the material they all deserve A's.
For example if you are testing "literacy" and everybody can actually read at grade level or higher with comprehension... that is a JOB WELL DONE all around!! Some sort of artificial ranking would be a problem then.
When I was TA'ing a microbiology class, the professor noted that while he used a standard bell curve because with 500 students he thinks that is the most fair system overall... one of the things he noted was that in the sessions I was the TA for... the students averaged 10-15% higher grades on test than in the sessions I didn't. This happened semester after semester. The students who I ran study groups for were actually retaining more knowledge on average than the other students by a significant measurable amount.
He really tried to seduce me into changing majors.
However the point is that the goal of an eduction is to teach a process of learning AND to communicate the basics of a body of knowledge.
If you can achieve that for 80% of the students than insisting a bunch of them get artificially lowered grades serves nobody. Similarly artificially increased grades (grade inflation) does a massive injustice to students and society.
Grades should reflect the accomplishment of goals.
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