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If you select the "Activate all Cylon ships of one type: Heavy Raiders" of the Cylon Fleet location, do the Centurion already on the Galactica move?
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Todd Warnken
United States Harrison Ohio
Get it on. Got to get it on. No choice but to get it on. Mandate, GET IT ON!
Now where was I?
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Yes.
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Ouch... in a game with 3 Cylons (6 or 7 players) if a Centurion appears on the Galactica it's almost like an auto-win for the Cylons.
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Darren Nakamura
United States Tempe Arizona
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Only if they all have turns in a row. And even then, you just have to make sure you deal with any Centurions before the three Cylon turns come up.
Personally, I've never seen a Centurion victory where the Centurion was pushed only by Cylons. Cylons have to get pretty lucky, or Humans have to be not paying attention for it to get within automatic loss territory.
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Robert Stewart
United Kingdom
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LukeZ wrote: If you select the "Activate all Cylon ships of one type: Heavy Raiders" of the Cylon Fleet location, do the Centurion already on the Galactica move?
With the exception of the launch option, Cylon Fleet activations act just like resolving the corresponding Cylon activation icon, right down to placing ships on the Cylon Fleet Board if you're playing with Exodus.
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LukeZ wrote: Ouch... in a game with 3 Cylons (6 or 7 players) if a Centurion appears on the Galactica it's almost like an auto-win for the Cylons. As a point of order, there is no official rule that would lead to the creation of three full Cylons. Playing without house-rules, the third Cylon will always be either a Cylon Leader or Sympathetic Cylon, which comes with its own agenda it needs to satisfy to with the game and therefore may not want to push a Centurion to end the game now, or a Cylon Sympathizer, which is not allowed to activate Cylon Fleet at all.
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ackmondual
United States
Virginia
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LukeZ wrote: Ouch... in a game with 3 Cylons (6 or 7 players) if a Centurion appears on the Galactica it's almost like an auto-win for the Cylons. Well, remember, unless you're playing with house rules, the only way to have 3 cylons in the base game is 2 regular cylons and 1 cylon symp., and the cylon symp. can't use Cylon Fleet, nor can she receive a super crisis card (which is the only way I can think of to activate heavy raiders... via failing Fleet Mobilization 24GPRB)
With the Symp-Cylon/CL, it can be 3-in-a row if the agenda so demands it, or just 2 if Cavil uses his OPG, but he does need to move to Cylon Fleet first, and him moving to Cylon Fleet with centurions on board or who are about to board should raise red flags up the "wah-zoo".
Dexter345 wrote: Only if they all have turns in a row. And even then, you just have to make sure you deal with any Centurions before the three Cylon turns come up.
Personally, I've never seen a Centurion victory where the Centurion was pushed only by Cylons. Cylons have to get pretty lucky, or Humans have to be not paying attention for it to get within automatic loss territory. Well, a 7+ can be hard to roll even with 3 human turns. Perhaps someone's in the Brig, didn't draw an XO, or doesn't have SP... pick 2 of the 3.
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Mike Richards
United States
Ohio
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You don't need 3 Cylons in a row... you just need Cavil.
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No house rules.
In a 6 players game there are 2 cylons and 1 cylon leader (usually human-sided, but not always and when it's not...) In a 7 players game there are 2 cylons and 1 cylon leader (usually cylon-sided)
In the last game maybe the 3 humans have been very unlucky, but with a total of 5 rolls (2 of witch with a +2) the single Centurion wiped out them all.
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Robert Stewart
United Kingdom
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LukeZ wrote: In the last game maybe the 3 humans have been very unlucky, but with a total of 5 rolls (2 of witch with a +2) the single Centurion wiped out them all.
You'll get five misses out of five rolls, two of which using Strategic Planning, on average every ninth or tenth game. So, pretty unlucky, but not exceptionally so.
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rmsgrey wrote: You'll get five misses out of five rolls, two of which using Strategic Planning, on average every ninth or tenth game. So, pretty unlucky, but not exceptionally so. Not quite - the numbers do add up to about a 10.5% probability of those rolls failing, but there's more to it than just those numbers. To be more precise, that sort of loss only happens every ninth or tenth game in which a Heavy successfully reaches Galactica before the fleet jumps, you can't make more than five Armory activations, you can't Strategically Plan more than two of them, you can't use Helo's OPT, Kat's OPT, or Anders's OPG, you don't have Calculations available, and you can't use Authorization of Brutal Force. That happens a lot less often than once every ten games; I've played a good thirty or so games of Battlestar Galactica (with varied amounts of expansions), and yet I've only ever seen humans lose to centurions once (and that was due to three centurions getting on board at the same time, not due to several failed rolls against a lone centurion).
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Robert Stewart
United Kingdom
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salty53 wrote: rmsgrey wrote: You'll get five misses out of five rolls, two of which using Strategic Planning, on average every ninth or tenth game. So, pretty unlucky, but not exceptionally so. Not quite - the numbers do add up to about a 10.5% probability of those rolls failing, but there's more to it than just those numbers. To be more precise, that sort of loss only happens every ninth or tenth game in which a Heavy successfully reaches Galactica before the fleet jumps, you can't make more than five Armory activations, you can't Strategically Plan more than two of them, you can't use Helo's OPT, Kat's OPT, or Anders's OPG, you don't have Calculations available, and you can't use Authorization of Brutal Force. That happens a lot less often than once every ten games; I've played a good thirty or so games of Battlestar Galactica (with varied amounts of expansions), and yet I've only ever seen humans lose to centurions once (and that was due to three centurions getting on board at the same time, not due to several failed rolls against a lone centurion).
True, I should have said (but didn't) every ninth or tenth game in which that situation arises
I've seen Centurions take out Galactica several times - either because humans didn't take the threat seriously until too late, or because several threats all hit at once, and humans couldn't focus their attention on the boarders, or because several boarded in quick succession.
Authorisation of Brutal Force or Armory is a strategic decision - on the one hand, the Quorum card offers a guaranteed kill; on the other, it risks Morale, and requires the President to either have the card in hand, or have drawn enough Quorum to make it likely to come up in time.
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rmsgrey wrote: I've seen Centurions take out Galactica several times - either because humans didn't take the threat seriously until too late, or because several threats all hit at once, and humans couldn't focus their attention on the boarders, or because several boarded in quick succession.
Authorisation of Brutal Force or Armory is a strategic decision - on the one hand, the Quorum card offers a guaranteed kill; on the other, it risks Morale, and requires the President to either have the card in hand, or have drawn enough Quorum to make it likely to come up in time. *Pop, not Morale. And we virtually never play Authorization of Brutal Force on anything except Centurions, and the risk of a Pop is worth saving several Actions that would otherwise be spent shooting, so if ABF is available it is absolutely worthwhile.
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ackmondual
United States
Virginia
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salty53 wrote: rmsgrey wrote: You'll get five misses out of five rolls, two of which using Strategic Planning, on average every ninth or tenth game. So, pretty unlucky, but not exceptionally so. Not quite - the numbers do add up to about a 10.5% probability of those rolls failing, but there's more to it than just those numbers. To be more precise, that sort of loss only happens every ninth or tenth game in which a Heavy successfully reaches Galactica before the fleet jumps, you can't make more than five Armory activations, you can't Strategically Plan more than two of them, you can't use Helo's OPT, Kat's OPT, or Anders's OPG, you don't have Calculations available, and you can't use Authorization of Brutal Force. That happens a lot less often than once every ten games; I've played a good thirty or so games of Battlestar Galactica (with varied amounts of expansions), and yet I've only ever seen humans lose to centurions once (and that was due to three centurions getting on board at the same time, not due to several failed rolls against a lone centurion).
From my exp, my risk assessment (of cylon victory) is roughly... 1 cent = too risky, less so with 2 cylons, but still not worh it 2 cent = may be worth it, but may be good with 2 cylons 3 cent = worth going for 4 cent = def worth going for
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In that 6 players game a Centurion got the Galactica 3 times:
1 because of a Crisis (killed by Anders who used his special ability) 1 because of a Super Crisis (killed at the 4th roll) 1 because of revealed Cylon effect (he killed all the humans) (If I'm not mistaken...)
A LOT of human actions got wasted on failed rolls... I still think that game-over by Centurions is too "wild". If you are lucky Centurions do nothing. If you are unlucky you waste a lot of precious actions and you still can fail...
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Robert Stewart
United Kingdom
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LukeZ wrote: I still think that game-over by Centurions is too "wild". If you are lucky Centurions do nothing. If you are unlucky you waste a lot of precious actions and you still can fail...
Of the six Cylon victory conditions, the resources are attritional - they gradually decrease over the course of the game, and are usually only an imminent threat for the last couple of jump cycles. Galactica damage or Centurions can end the game in fairly short order at almost any point - meaning that there's potential for tense moments even in the first jump cycle rather than all the threats being "If we fail this check, then we lose one of our seven remaining morale! We have to pass, or the game will get slightly harder to win!"
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rmsgrey wrote: LukeZ wrote: I still think that game-over by Centurions is too "wild". If you are lucky Centurions do nothing. If you are unlucky you waste a lot of precious actions and you still can fail... Of the six Cylon victory conditions, the resources are attritional - they gradually decrease over the course of the game, and are usually only an imminent threat for the last couple of jump cycles. Galactica damage or Centurions can end the game in fairly short order at almost any point - meaning that there's potential for tense moments even in the first jump cycle rather than all the threats being "If we fail this check, then we lose one of our seven remaining morale! We have to pass, or the game will get slightly harder to win!"
Damage can be repaired with cards (a wise human will keep some repair cards ready). Heavy Raiders can be destroyed by Pilots with the right cards (Maximum Firepower is the best one). Centurions... you get to roll. Yes, the +2 to the die roll is your friend, but there is nothing specific against them (as opposed to Heavy Riders)
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Robert Stewart
United Kingdom
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LukeZ wrote: Damage can be repaired with cards (a wise human will keep some repair cards ready). Heavy Raiders can be destroyed by Pilots with the right cards (Maximum Firepower is the best one). Centurions... you get to roll. Yes, the +2 to the die roll is your friend, but there is nothing specific against them (as opposed to Heavy Riders)
Authorization of Brutal Force works pretty well against Centurions. Armory die rolls may have a better chance of success than digging for ABF if the President hasn't been mining the Quorum, but ABF is a guaranteed kill if the President has it on hand (and, with the ability to dig 4 cards through the Quorum deck given an Executive Order, the odds of drawing one aren't that bad...)
Both Damage and Centurions either kill you fairly quickly, or get dealt with. The four resources kill you slowly - while they can be increased, and can drop dramatically in a fairly short time, the usual pattern is to drop a point or two at a time throughout the game until they're a point or two away from human defeat entering the final jump cycle.
Damage and Centurions are the ways the game has to put humans in immediate danger of losing early on.
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