Allan Clements
Norway
Oslo
Turns out Esseb did touch the flag. Don't tell him I said so though.
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The Letnev also gain the top card of the strategy deck whenever they win the bid on a strategy card.
They do appear to have the simplest race sheet.
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Desarius wrote: The rule for uncertain alliances: Each player receives a secret card at the beginning of the game. If you win as part of an alliance and you have achieved your secret goal, you win alone.
Oh, wow, I’m glad it’s optional. I love shared victories in Cosmic Encounter.
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Michael Buccheri
United States
Glen Arm
Maryland
Sweet Holy Moses, Fruit F*cker Prime!
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2097 wrote: Desarius wrote: The rule for uncertain alliances: Each player receives a secret card at the beginning of the game. If you win as part of an alliance and you have achieved your secret goal, you win alone. Oh, wow, I’m glad it’s optional. I love shared victories in Cosmic Encounter.
I think this is a must play with option. Shared victories can ruin dune without some of the rules that make it harder to do. Anything that gives you a reason not to trust your ally is good IMHO.
-M
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Joel Tamburo
United States
Unspecified
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malloc wrote: 2097 wrote: Desarius wrote: The rule for uncertain alliances: Each player receives a secret card at the beginning of the game. If you win as part of an alliance and you have achieved your secret goal, you win alone. Oh, wow, I’m glad it’s optional. I love shared victories in Cosmic Encounter. I think this is a must play with option. Shared victories can ruin dune without some of the rules that make it harder to do. Anything that gives you a reason not to trust your ally is good IMHO. -M
Actually I would say the opposite. A strong point of Dune was that the victory conditions were not necessarily zero sum. It was refreshing to have a game where players could win together.
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Brad Johnson
United States
Crystal Lake
Illinois
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Joelist wrote: Actually I would say the opposite. A strong point of Dune was that the victory conditions were not necessarily zero sum. It was refreshing to have a game where players could win together.
I'm a huge Dune fan, but the uncertain alliances option does sound like something I'm really looking forward to trying out in Rex. I like the idea, anyway. If it's implemented well so it adds some paranoia to the alliances without breaking the whole feel of the game, I think it'll be a fun twist. Even with this option, players can still win together, so that part isn't lost. It just makes alliances a bit less of a sure thing.
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Kevin Maroney
United States
Yonkers
New York
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Desarius wrote: Some of the new things in Rex
1. The number of game rounds is eight in Rex, It's fifteen in Dune
It looks like the Rex Spice Influence deck has two Spice Blows influence eruptions every turn, which, if I recall correctly, was how the "Advanced" Dune worked--turn up two Spice cards every turn and play half as many turns.
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Big Head Zach
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
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tempus42 wrote: It just makes alliances a bit less of a sure thing.
I'm curious to see how such a system could be implemented in Cosmic Encounter, a similar design (from the same designers, natch) which has its share of fans who despise shared victories.
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Brine
United States
Portland
Oregon
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bhz1 wrote: tempus42 wrote: It just makes alliances a bit less of a sure thing. I'm curious to see how such a system could be implemented in Cosmic Encounter, a similar design (from the same designers, natch) which has its share of fans who despise shared victories.
If the text of the betrayal cards ever gets posted, I'd like to see if it would be possible to port them over to Dune.
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Slev Sleddeddan
United Kingdom
Victoria Park
Manchester
What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?
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womzilla wrote: Desarius wrote: Some of the new things in Rex
1. The number of game rounds is eight in Rex, It's fifteen in Dune It looks like the Rex Spice Influence deck has two Spice Blows influence eruptions every turn, which, if I recall correctly, was how the "Advanced" Dune worked--turn up two Spice cards every turn and play half as many turns.
Combining the example card and the map though the Influence/Spice appears on two territories on opposite sides of the board so only one will be in the immediate path of the storm/bombardment.
Also the option you're thinking of only gave two spice blows, it did nothing else.
My guess is that the increase in revival cost offsets the extra spice. balancing the economy.
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tempus42 wrote:
I'm a huge Dune fan, but the uncertain alliances option does sound like something I'm really looking forward to trying out in Rex. I like the idea, anyway. If it's implemented well so it adds some paranoia to the alliances without breaking the whole feel of the game, I think it'll be a fun twist. Even with this option, players can still win together, so that part isn't lost. It just makes alliances a bit less of a sure thing.
I concur. I love the alliance mechanisms in Dune as they are, but anything that adds MORE uncertainties to a player's motivations only makes the game that much more Machiavellian - which is excellent.
I'm not saying this uncertain alliance rule is a "must use," but I definitely intend to give it a spin.
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Andy Stout
United States
La Jolla
CA
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Slev wrote: My guess is that the increase in revival cost offsets the extra spice. balancing the economy.
Once again, there is *no* increase in revival cost.
I can't believe, still no one has posted scans of Sol race sheet? So curious!
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Brine
United States
Portland
Oregon
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dragonstout wrote: Slev wrote: My guess is that the increase in revival cost offsets the extra spice. balancing the economy. Once again, there is *no* increase in revival cost.
I think he means that since you can revive up to 5 troops, you'll be paying more in the long run.
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Bob Archer
United States
Tampa
Florida
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bhz1 wrote: tempus42 wrote: It just makes alliances a bit less of a sure thing. I'm curious to see how such a system could be implemented in Cosmic Encounter, a similar design (from the same designers, natch) which has its share of fans who despise shared victories.
Variant 1:
Each alien race that achieved 5 foreign colonies roll 2 D6. The lowest total roll wins. Keep rolling until there is a single winer.
Variant 2:
Set up the game, pass out the cards. Each alien race rolls 2 D6. The lowest total roll wins and does not have to help packing the game back up.
There you go.. no charge.
BOb
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Slev Sleddeddan
United Kingdom
Victoria Park
Manchester
What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?
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Disgustipater wrote: dragonstout wrote: Slev wrote: My guess is that the increase in revival cost offsets the extra spice. balancing the economy. Once again, there is *no* increase in revival cost. I think he means that since you can revive up to 5 troops, you'll be paying more in the long run.
It was very late in my day when I read the rules and posted that. Even I don't know what I was yammering on about...
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
Overtext pending moderation...
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bhz1 wrote: tempus42 wrote: It just makes alliances a bit less of a sure thing. I'm curious to see how such a system could be implemented in Cosmic Encounter, a similar design (from the same designers, natch) which has its share of fans who despise shared victories.
One big difference between the shared victories in Rex and those in Cosmic are that you are winning as a team in Rex whereas in Cosmic you just happen to be winning at the same time. I think this would make the port-over not as appropriate.
Also, you have a lot less control over the various aspects of the game in Cosmic, meaning the "real" winner would basically be determined randomly anyway, making the die roll suggestion above not all that silly.
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bleached_lizard wrote: One big difference between the shared victories in Rex and those in Cosmic are that you are winning as a team in Rex whereas in Cosmic you just happen to be winning at the same time. I think this would make the port-over not as appropriate.
Thanks. Could you please explain the difference more clearly for someone who’s familiar with Cosmic Encounter but not with Dune or Rex?
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
Overtext pending moderation...
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2097 wrote: bleached_lizard wrote: One big difference between the shared victories in Rex and those in Cosmic are that you are winning as a team in Rex whereas in Cosmic you just happen to be winning at the same time. I think this would make the port-over not as appropriate. Thanks. Could you please explain the difference more clearly for someone who’s familiar with Cosmic Encounter but not with Dune or Rex?
In Dune/Rex you form an alliance, and so your 'victory points' are added together to determine the winner (though you need a higher total to win as an alliance). Also, you can't attack each other and you confer special abilities to your co-alliance members.
In Cosmic, the players that share a win are not allied with each other - they just win at the same time.
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Big Head Zach
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
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bleached_lizard wrote: In Cosmic, the players that share a win are not allied with each other - they just win at the same time.
95% of the time there is a shared victory in CE, it is because one or more players deliberately choose to do so. I'd call that an alliance. (It may have formed during that turn, but it's still deliberate).
What tends to "ruin" some groups' opinion of CE is when there's the 4-on-1 victory, or when no one wishes to share the victory and winning involves defeating 4 or more players teaming against you - and that comes down to whether or not you have one of the few super-powered attack cards in the deck.
Giving players hidden "tiebreakers" would help speed up games because it would promote more alliances in the end.
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bhz1 wrote: 95% of the time there is a shared victory in CE, it is because one or more players deliberately choose to do so. I'd call that an alliance.
I agree. Well, you say “one or more” so that even includes Parasite victory.
Quote: Giving players hidden "tiebreakers" would help speed up games because it would promote more alliances in the end.
Or it would make players more paranoid against alliances. “Why are you proposing an alliance with me, you must have a hidden tiebreaker, this I cannot bear!”
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Lee Fisher
United States
Downingtown
Pennsylvania
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bhz1 wrote: bleached_lizard wrote: In Cosmic, the players that share a win are not allied with each other - they just win at the same time. 95% of the time there is a shared victory in CE, it is because one or more players deliberately choose to do so. I'd call that an alliance. (It may have formed during that turn, but it's still deliberate). What tends to "ruin" some groups' opinion of CE is when there's the 4-on-1 victory, or when no one wishes to share the victory and winning involves defeating 4 or more players teaming against you - and that comes down to whether or not you have one of the few super-powered attack cards in the deck. Giving players hidden "tiebreakers" would help speed up games because it would promote more alliances in the end.
It is a similar problem in Dune.
It could be especially interesting to have something like this with the team Cosmic rules in the new expansion.
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
Overtext pending moderation...
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bhz1 wrote: bleached_lizard wrote: In Cosmic, the players that share a win are not allied with each other - they just win at the same time. 95% of the time there is a shared victory in CE, it is because one or more players deliberately choose to do so. I'd call that an alliance. (It may have formed during that turn, but it's still deliberate).
But it is not an alliance (in any official way the game recognises). It is simply two or more players agreeing on the final turn to perform moves that will result in a tie. This is the difference; Rex allows for team victories, Cosmic only allows for ties.
Additionally, as you say, the "alliance" is only formed in the last turn, so there can be no long-term planning for backstabbing your opponent to achieve the hidden tiebreaker, which is what you *can* do in Rex.
IMO, this kind of hidden tiebreaker wouldn't work well in Cosmic. It might work, but I don't think it would work well.
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
Overtext pending moderation...
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lfisher wrote: bhz1 wrote: bleached_lizard wrote: In Cosmic, the players that share a win are not allied with each other - they just win at the same time. 95% of the time there is a shared victory in CE, it is because one or more players deliberately choose to do so. I'd call that an alliance. (It may have formed during that turn, but it's still deliberate). What tends to "ruin" some groups' opinion of CE is when there's the 4-on-1 victory, or when no one wishes to share the victory and winning involves defeating 4 or more players teaming against you - and that comes down to whether or not you have one of the few super-powered attack cards in the deck. Giving players hidden "tiebreakers" would help speed up games because it would promote more alliances in the end. It is a similar problem in Dune. It could be especially interesting to have something like this with the team Cosmic rules in the new expansion.
Again, an important difference is that in Rex you can make and break alliances at will, whereas in Cosmic your alliances are set from the start and cannot be changed.
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Scott Lewis
United States
Castle Rock
Colorado
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
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bleached_lizard wrote: lfisher wrote: bhz1 wrote: bleached_lizard wrote: In Cosmic, the players that share a win are not allied with each other - they just win at the same time. 95% of the time there is a shared victory in CE, it is because one or more players deliberately choose to do so. I'd call that an alliance. (It may have formed during that turn, but it's still deliberate). What tends to "ruin" some groups' opinion of CE is when there's the 4-on-1 victory, or when no one wishes to share the victory and winning involves defeating 4 or more players teaming against you - and that comes down to whether or not you have one of the few super-powered attack cards in the deck. Giving players hidden "tiebreakers" would help speed up games because it would promote more alliances in the end. It is a similar problem in Dune. It could be especially interesting to have something like this with the team Cosmic rules in the new expansion. Again, an important difference is that in Rex you can make and break alliances at will, whereas in Cosmic your alliances are set from the start and cannot be changed.
Not quite "at will" in Rex - you can only change alliances when the Alliance cards are revealed from the event deck.
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
Overtext pending moderation...
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sigmazero13 wrote: bleached_lizard wrote: lfisher wrote: bhz1 wrote: bleached_lizard wrote: In Cosmic, the players that share a win are not allied with each other - they just win at the same time. 95% of the time there is a shared victory in CE, it is because one or more players deliberately choose to do so. I'd call that an alliance. (It may have formed during that turn, but it's still deliberate). What tends to "ruin" some groups' opinion of CE is when there's the 4-on-1 victory, or when no one wishes to share the victory and winning involves defeating 4 or more players teaming against you - and that comes down to whether or not you have one of the few super-powered attack cards in the deck. Giving players hidden "tiebreakers" would help speed up games because it would promote more alliances in the end. It is a similar problem in Dune. It could be especially interesting to have something like this with the team Cosmic rules in the new expansion. Again, an important difference is that in Rex you can make and break alliances at will, whereas in Cosmic your alliances are set from the start and cannot be changed. Not quite "at will" in Rex - you can only change alliances when the Alliance cards are revealed from the event deck.
Well, yes, but my point was that they're not permanent like they are in Cosmic.
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Bob Archer
United States
Tampa
Florida
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Again, an important difference is that in Rex you can make and break alliances at will, whereas in Cosmic your alliances are set from the start and cannot be changed.
Wait what? I think you have that backward. In Cosmic you can have different alliances in every encounter. In Dune you form/break alliances only during the Nexus... which may/can come up 6 times per game.
BOb
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