Darren Miguez
United States
New Jersey
-
I decided to take the plunge and ordered Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition, and both expansions.
And some Plano boxes to store them.
And some card sleeves.
And... you get the picture.
I'm all in.
SO... I contacted 5 friends to try and get a game going in February or March, and hopefully make it a twice-yearly event, if all goess well.
I've printed and laminated handouts, tech trees, common mistakes, etc etc.
BUT... that can't compare to the sheer mass of accumulated experience here on BGG.
SO... I ask unto thee... what advice do you have for a group setting about on their first Galactic Struggle?
I have all the expansions, so am wondering if anything should be considered for this first game, or if certain things are Right Out and should not be looked at.
Thoughts?
Thanks in advance!
Darren
-
Damo
Australia
Hobart
Tasmania
Plastic & Shiney!
Don't try this in a B-17!
-
First off, welcome to the addict...I mean hobby.
My advice (which doesn't mean I'm right) is to start off with the base game.
That's it.
Start small & get an idea of how the game system works and a feel for strategies for each race without getting swamped by lots (and lots and lots) of extra rules.
Then in your next game, you can swop out iniative cards and add in all the bells and whistles you want.
-
Martin Presley
United States
California
-
A lot of people will convince you of their favored combination of variants and house rules, but I wouldn't use any of that for your first game. The ISC in particular is much maligned, but its simplicity and metronomic pace is good for a first game. The core of TI is playing a huge space empire, participating in space democracy, and getting into the occasional space punch-up. No SC will change or spoil that. Play a vanilla game, then decide for yourself what it needs.
Other tips follow. Make sure everyone has set aside the entire day; expect a 12 hour experience. Agree that if someone messes something up, fix it if it is easy to do so, and just play with it if it cannot be easily fixed. Always keep an eye on fleet supply limits and space dock production limits, as these are probably the easiest mistakes to make that are easy to fix right away, but impossible to fix later on, especially after a battle. Don't spend too long explaining every rule at the start, just make sure people can read the game symbols, know the turn order, and are aware of their options.
Above all, keep the game flowing. TI is a long game, but there's very little downtime, and this quick pace stops it from feeling like a long game. You'll be surprised how the time flys by as you make a sequence of interesting decisions. Don't worry about getting every rule perfect, just worry on having fun and keep everything moving. If there is a rules question and an answer can't be found in the manual in a minute or so, just take a vote, and move on. You can always get it right the next time.
-
Derek Porter
United States
Bangor
Maine
-
I wholeheartedly agree that you should start with just the basic game. I also fully agree that the original Imperial card gets a lot of hate around here, but works just fine for a learning game.
My addition to that is the Imperial II (included in Shattered Empires) requires use of the optional Age of Empire rule. This allows everyone to see what the objectives are from the beginning, which can be quite useful in learning what sorts of things a player has to do to score Victory Points. Age of Empire can also be used with Imperial I if you so desire.
Beyond that, I'd avoid using any of the optional rules at first. Check the expansion rule books to see which cards got reprinted and swap those out.
You can use the races from the Shattered Empires expansion without too much trouble, but I'd avoid using the Shards of the Throne races (Ghosts of Creuss, Arborec, and Nekro Virus) as they're a little odd for newer players. Remove the Naalu Collective from your first game as well; the Naalu's ability to always go first can be confusing when trying to learn how the turn order works.
You may also want to download the FAQ in case you need any clarifications on the fly.
-
Scott Randolph
United States
Arvada
Colorado
-
I have to agree with the first three responders above. For a first (ever) game of ALL New players, I will make a few suggestions:
a. I would use a "Pre-Set" map
b. Just play the base game with no "Distant Suns" counters, no "Leaders," no "Sabotage Runs"...nothing, just the base game
c. Play a "Standard War" [10] VP game with no more than 6 players (4 players is actually better because each player will get two Strategy Cards every round, and you learn more about the game this way, plus you are always having to decide on executing "secondaries" for all SC's in the game)
d. I would remove a couple of Great Races for "New" players - I recommend taking out: Yssaril Tribes (takes a game or two to really "get" the awesomeness of their "skip" ability), Naalu Collective (messes with turn order, and again, it may not be readily apparent how powerful "Iniative 0" is the first couple of plays)
e. The only caveat I might add to the above would be possibly considering "Age of Empire" simply because new players will be able to see all of the Public Objectives from the beginning, but then again, the suspense of "Imperium Rex" adds some flavor to the game, and generally shortens it...keep in mind that this is a long game (which has never been a problem for me, I prefer TLW!, but then again, I'm an addict and I need "TI3 Therapy"), but shortening the game for newer players is generally a good idea...until the addiction takes hold.
Cheers! (SFRR)
-
Hector Flores
United States
Austin
Texas
-
Just wanted to say "Bravo!" to the three posters above me for supporting the use of the base game for a first-time game. (for all it's beauty and flaws)
I agree wholeheartedly.
Sounds like you've done all the preparation with the components that you can - this is good.
Now practice teaching it - pretend you are talking to individuals who has no exposure to boardgames and only a hint of interest. You'll have to persuade your friends to follow you on a 1/2 to 1 hour explanation of the rules the first time through. Resist the urge to say, "let's just pick up and play and we'll learn along the way!" (unless your group is ok with that sort of thing - mine never is).
Start with a high level overview of goals, then describe some of the basic components, then get into the details of a turn. Avoid describing the strategy cards until you have explained the structure of the game. Abstract where possible and let the players discover things on their own (e.g.): "Holy crap - why would I ever NOT take the Imperial Strategy card? It seems broken."
Realize that there will be some things you cannot prepare them for ("guys - I can't take you through what all the action cards do - so if there is a question, we can all agree that this is a first game and that the action card can be revealed and explained").
Best of luck! I've failed to teach this many-a-time, so try not to get discouraged if things don't go as well as you hope.
-
-
SFRR wrote:
a. I would use a "Pre-Set" map
This. Above all else, this. Lots of suggestions on how to balance the layouts, but don't bog people down with them trying to build a map when they don't even know how to play.
-
Steve Fowler
United States
cedar rapids
Iowa
-
Agree with most that has been posted. Just that I'm an Imperial/AOE hater.
Oh well, on to my comments:
Download and print several copies of the rules books (and at least 1 FAQ) you intend to use. Everyone will be want to look at them between actions and one will not be enough. You will do this someday anyway, so do it now.
Prepare a handout for each player.Working off one set of player aids for the entire group will be a nightmare. In it have several sheets.
1. Description of racial characteristics.
2. A sequence of play. See above.
3. A description of the strategy cards, preferably one that has a small photo of them on it.
All should be available from BGG files.
One of the Player designed Space Battle maps will help you out when combat starts.( of course I prefer mine but all are very good  )
I suggest a pre-made galaxy. One balanced with resources and influence spread evenly among the starting home world spots. Why? It really speeds up the game. You wont have one of your players that you want to come back to play again feel shafted by a crappy starting area. If all are new to the game, you won't know what your doing anyway. Nothing worse than a rookie holding mostly junk tiles and not knowing how to make the most of them.
Read every action and political card twice when they are played. What you think it says at first glance is not likely what you think in many cases.
Appoint one player as the Pusher. His job is to curb chat that is delaying the game or to spur the distracted player into taking his action/turn/or whatever. Basically keep the game process moving forward. Don't do this and your 10 hour game will never finish....
What you will play wrong....
PDS fire (Remember,into an activated tile!)
Pre-Combat effects (Defender chooses order in most cases)
Forgetting you have sareen tools (and that it applies to each space dock and only that space dock's builds)
Forgetting ALL your combat mods. (good luck with this one, suggest you sort out in advance how this will be handled, you can only go back so far to redo things. Of course my group is cutthroat, you snooze you lose, but now no one forgets any  )
Don't panic, all this is normal and will come 2nd nature as the game progresses.
Good luck and have fun, it's a killer game.
-
Martin Presley
United States
California
-
solclaim wrote: SFRR wrote:
a. I would use a "Pre-Set" map
This. Above all else, this. Lots of suggestions on how to balance the layouts, but don't bog people down with them trying to build a map when they don't even know how to play.
We did a normal map build on our first play; I just taught the players how to read the planet cards (so they could identify the good ones) and explain what each red hazard does. It was a lot of fun, and gets everyone a little bit invested, as interesting things are already happening and the galaxy has a feel of being our own unique place.
Really, I stand by pure vanilla TI. That said, taking the Naalu out isn't a bad idea, as their power is the most fundamentally different from the base game's rules. You could also include SE techs and not lose anything for it.
-
Derek Porter
United States
Bangor
Maine
-
SFRR wrote: ... but then again, I'm an addict and I need "TI3 Therapy"...
So I'm not the only one? Is there a support group? Have you activated Technology ye-dang it! Not again...
-
-
I hate to be what seems to be the lone dissenter, but I wouldn't necessarily just play the base game. I'm not a very experienced player (about 5 games), so take it with a grain of salt, but get my angle here: it's your game. Read the rules (all of them, and the FAQ, twice), then you should decide what seems cool/interesting/fun to you and teach the other players the version of TI3 that YOU want to play.
A lot of the optional and expansion rules are very simple, very straightforward, and are very enriching. Why not use them if you want? You will see some of them that will, right off the bat, look overwhelming for new players (for me, it was Distant Suns, Political Intrigue, and a few others). So yes, save those for another time. Or not. But know that everyone is pretty much correct when they say that adding a whole lot of rules and complication will add a whole lot of time. And I won't knock the base game at all. My first game was at GenCon last year, using just the base rules, and I had a blast.
I do agree with some suggestions, like using pre-made maps (which I've never done but it would definitely help for all new players) and having lots of Player Aids available. And I DEFINITELY recommend you talk your fellow players into reading at least the base rules ahead of time (and maybe more if you decide to throw in some expansion stuff, like the SE Strategy Cards).
So bottom line: do what you want. You probably have a good feel for your gaming group, and what they can and cannot handle in a first game, as well as your own time constraints (a 12 hour block is not entirely unreasonable for a first game). I taught three other players how to play using a bunch of rules from both expansions, and we did fine (took about 8 hours).
-
Jack Smith
United Kingdom
-
Basic game only for the reasons already stated.
-
Arius Elvikis
United States
Darien
Illinois
-
TUTORIAL GAME!
Our group killed Starcraft tBG because we dove in with all six people. Had we played a smaller half-game with 3, we would've learned all the rules and been able to teach the rest. Now no one wants it to ever come out again.
Make a date with 2 of your closest buds to come over for something like two or three tutorial rounds. You will be stunned at how much checking you have to do on things. If there are six of you, you'll be really torturing your weakest, most impatient link, and you risk the game never coming out again.
If people make a fuss about "well then you'll be ahead in strategy", they're wrong. Just learning how to play doesn't nearly begin to cover the action, politic cards. You'll all be strategically fresh but will have a couple Teaching Assistants to help you cover everything.
-
Scott Randolph
United States
Arvada
Colorado
-
UncleChu wrote: TUTORIAL GAME!
Our group killed Starcraft tBG because we dove in with all six people. Had we played a smaller half-game with 3, we would've learned all the rules and been able to teach the rest. Now no one wants it to ever come out again.
Make a date with 2 of your closest buds to come over for something like two or three tutorial rounds. You will be stunned at how much checking you have to do on things. If there are six of you, you'll be really torturing your weakest, most impatient link, and you risk the game never coming out again.
If people make a fuss about "well then you'll be ahead in strategy", they're wrong. Just learning how to play doesn't nearly begin to cover the action, politic cards. You'll all be strategically fresh but will have a couple Teaching Assistants to help you cover everything.
This is a fantastic idea. I did exactly this with two friends in my game group before the larger group ever played "Conquest of the Empire II" (Eagle Games), we did a "play test" where we each took turns playing 6 fictitious players, with each of us discussing what we could and could not do. We went through 2 full action rounds of the 1st Campaign Season...this was absolutely invaluable!
Great idea Uncle Chu! (SFRR)
-
-
Second the tutorial game idea.
First time we played, we played through the first round, then restarted the game properly. If you have the time, I think that's the way to do it.
You could even go for a much smaller galaxy so you get to try the fighting rules too.
I don't agree on the 'basic game only' thing though. I think it's a shame to spend your first many hours with TI playing a stunted version of the game.
-
Markus M.
Finland
Helsinki
Uusimaa
-
UncleChu wrote: Make a date with 2 of your closest buds to come over for something like two or three tutorial rounds. You will be stunned at how much checking you have to do on things. If there are six of you, you'll be really torturing your weakest, most impatient link, and you risk the game never coming out again.
This is an excellent piece of advice. We did something similar back when we got into TI3 and this was a great way to do it.
-
Mike Reilly
New York
New York
-
One suggestion I will make is that the races are the coolest part of the game. Getting into your race really gets you into the game. If possible, have the players read up on and choose races ahead of time - this will save some time come game day, and also give the players time to absorb the essence of their race and have it mean something, to get the flavor and geek out a bit. I totally geek out on my chosen race in the days leading up to a game.
Even without having played, however, you may get the sense that some races are harder/more complex to play with than others. Some here have mentioned that. I think you would probably do well to avoid the Nekro virus, for example, as cool as they are thematically.
Otherwise, understand that you're going to mess things up at least a bit, and just try to have fun.
Cheers!
-
Martin Larouche
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
Melting souls with cuteness since 2007
Lovin' N-16
-
I will go totally against the majority here.
Play with the base game, without leaders and without distant suns options, BUT use the strategy cards from the first expansion.
The basic ISC is a broken card. And no, i am not exagerating. It is too important to pass up, costing you the game ¾ of the times if you fail to take it when it's your turn. And a random action card could prevent you from taking it. Picking a random action card that let's you decide singlehandedly if another player wins or lose... i call that broken, especially in a 5+ hour game...
The alternate set is not harder to learn from the basic set and is much better.
-
Derek Porter
United States
Bangor
Maine
-
I tend to disagree. The Imperial I card succeeds in its purpose: acting as a timer for the game. I does mean that you must follow a certain pattern of choices to win, though.
The original Strategy cards are easier to use and more forgiving. Diplomacy I allows you to protect yourself from an aggressive opponent better than Diplomacy II does. Political is far simpler in execution than Assembly, and I'd bet it resolves faster than Assembly with new players as well.
I could go on, but I'll simply reiterate that the original Strategy cards with Imperial II would be simpler for the first game, and that a small learning game is a great idea. Everything that the alternate Strategy cards do builds off what you learn from the original set, and it's very easy to make the transition to the alternate set.
-
-
templarjr wrote: I tend to disagree. The Imperial I card succeeds in its purpose: acting as a timer for the game. I does mean that you must follow a certain pattern of choices to win, though.
No one is denying that.
It's just that it breaks the game while serving that purpose.
I would take the second set of cards and a victory condition of 8 VP anytime.
It may well be that the original set of SCs do a good job of 'leading into' later games. But with a game that can easily clock 12 hours, spending the first game 'leading into' the games that will actually work as we all know and love it is a bit much to ask.
-
-
We will also start our first full game on February the 9th. I am quite excited how this will work out.
I am already trying to play tutorial rounds with everyone who will be involved in the full game, as i myself needed 2x2h Tutorial to fully get the mechanism of the game - and yet i am far from a tactic or strategy, but i can follow the vanilla rules (mostly i guess ^^)
-
Darren Miguez
United States
New Jersey
-
Thanks to all who have replied thus far. I really value your insights as veteran players.
To Mr. Sampson who inquired as to my not searching similar threads:
I have indeed read some of the threads you note, but i am fully of the opinion that people's views of games evolve over time, and TI3, with its many options and two expansions seems to be a game that a person may have changing thoughts on after playing the game with new options, new cards coming up, etc.
I merely wanted the most up to date thoughts people had, especially given how many games may have to pass before people got to play a game with, say, Political Intrigue.
AS a secondary question: I've spent literally all week outside of work organizing the game for fast set up, and incorporating things into as small a space as possible.
While sleeving cards, I've become fascinated with the political angle, and the Political Intrigue options, representatives, etc.
What are peoples experiences with them?
-
Scott Randolph
United States
Arvada
Colorado
-
vrylakos wrote:
While sleeving cards, I've become fascinated with the political angle, and the Political Intrigue options, representatives, etc.
What are peoples experiences with them?
I hate "Intrigue," but I will play with it if others want to. Adds additional time to an already long game, it's tedious and "fiddly," and it provides no "improvement" over the existing political mechanics. (I also hate "Mercenaries"...but I will play with them to be a "good sport"...more randomness...just more randomness).
Just one player's opinion. You should try it ("Intrigue") once or twice no matter what, just to see what it's like, then you can hate it and never use it again. 
Have fun! (SFRR)
-
-
UncleChu wrote: TUTORIAL GAME!
I actually just joined this site for this very game and we literally had a tutorial game last night. me and 3 friends got together and tried to play with barely any knowledge of the game. I read the rules best I could, but they really don't sink in until you actually do them. It took an hour and a half to really grasp every aspect of the game. Now we have a good handle on everything.
Not to say the rules are complex, I'd say all the rules and options are simple, there are just a lot of them. You have so many avenues that you can pursue to victory that it may seem daunting at first. But after a while we got used to everything.
this weekend we plan to try a 6 man game, and although not all of the 4 players from the tutorial will be there, we will have enough people and knowledge from that one game to teach everyone and anyone how to play step by step.
-
|
|
