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Subject: Is this OOP? rss

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Shayne Gray
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DakotaDevil wrote:

If people around here would get their heads out of game developers' asses and stop pretending to defend local game stores and their ridiculous mark up prices, they would see that limited distribution is not a good thing.



From your postings you show that you lack the knowledge of the economics of a nich store like a game store. Do you honestly think that your local game store can sell games at the same price of say CSI or Amazon and actually stay in buisness?
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Jason
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CleverMojo wrote:
DakotaDevil wrote:
zephaus wrote:
New listing on E-bay this morning.

http://boardgamegeek.com/geekbay/link/180813789825/8375130

You can buy it now, shipping included, for $49.19.


I just about pulled the trigger on this one. But for some reason the auction was ended early and the seller only sold one copy out of the 10 + that he had listed. Very suspicious. I'm positive that Clever Mojo or Game Salute had something to do with this. Cease and desist?

You have no idea what you're talking about and I'd appreciate it if you would stop implying that I'm the next worst person to the anti-christ.

Hey David, sorry about that post. I didn't mean to point a finger at you personally and single you out. I'm sure the choice was made based on the best option for Clever Mojo as a whole. Pay no mind to me, I'm just ranting. I'll give it a rest.

I have reread through the comments in this topic and I appear to be coming off as a pompous ass. I didn't aim for that to happen. My apologies to others in this topic as well. I didn't mean to turn this into some heated argument. I was simply trying to understand the reasoning behind all of this and trying to comprehend why we, as consumers, are not given options to buy the game from.

If this game really is as good as many of you say it is, then it's probably worth the $60.

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Bridget Gray
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DakotaDevil wrote:

If this game really is as good as many of you say it is, then it's probably worth the $60.



It is worth it
 
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Chris Bender
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DakotaDevil wrote:
I have reread through the comments in this topic and I appear to be coming off as a pompous ass.


Your filthy language doesn't help your situation either. Very low class.
 
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Randall Bart
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StephenM wrote:
My wife is currently disabled and the only thing we have is our board games. What we don't have is alot of money so I try not to spend even a dollar more than I have to.


Then play the board games you already own, and save your money for necessities. If you manage to budget a small amount for games, then spend that money wisely. You don't need to tell us every item you don't buy.

DakotaDevil wrote:
Yes, I know this but CM is being such a stickler, I wouldn't put it past them.

That is just stupid talk. This whole dispute is because manufacturers can't control retail sales. When I was a kid we had a system called fair trade. The manufacturer would set a minimum retail price, and no one could sell below that. Hi-fis Consumer electronics were sold in showrooms with helpful salespeople. Brands competed on price, but stores had to compete by providing service. Then in the 1970s, fair trade was wiped out by the consumer protection laws. Shortly thereafter the showrooms gave way to warehouse stores.

Gamesalute has a game distribution model where they only sell at wholesale prices to retail stores. It has been suggested that this is in violation of the consumer protection laws I mentioned. It is quite possible Gamesalute is violating the law in some state. Get your Attorney General to sue. Until then, this is how Gamesalute sells games.

David did a great job putting together the first printing of Alien Frontiers. However, he sold a lot of them wholesale with underestimated shipping and he made very little money on the first printing. He tried to make a deal with distributors to finance a second printing, but David is not good at economic games, and he couldn't make a deal until he found Gamesalute. David owns the inventory, but Gamesalute offered a system that was less work for him, and allowed him to get some bigger profit margins. With his time freed up, he can develop more games. If he can get more titles to market and make some reasonable profits, he can quit his day job.

And that's what really gets to me. Did it ever occur to anyone to ask whether this big bad greedy game company still had a day job?
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Stephen McHale
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Barticus88 wrote:
StephenM wrote:
My wife is currently disabled and the only thing we have is our board games. What we don't have is alot of money so I try not to spend even a dollar more than I have to.


Then play the board games you already own, and save your money for necessities. If you manage to budget a small amount for games, then spend that money wisely. You don't need to tell us every item you don't buy.



I was done here, then this. Really? I mean REALLY?

I had a big response typed, decided it is just not worth it, moving on.
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Chris Berger
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DakotaDevil wrote:
If this game really is as good as many of you say it is, then it's probably worth the $60.


I'll be completely honest with you - you got, I believe, Twilight Imperium for $54. That is a $100 game. If you enjoy TI (and I have no reason to believe that you wouldn't - I haven't played it myself because I lack the 8+ hours at a time to commit to it (and also lack the game, but that wouldn't be a serious impediment if I wanted to play)), then that's a great deal. If you go by sheer components, then there's little chance you'll look at the pieces in Alien Frontiers and think that they are shinier or more numerous or better quality than TI. TI is a $100 game. If Alien Frontiers was $100, I'd be questioning the price of it myself.

If you go off gameplay, well.. Twilight Imperium is ranked #25, while Alien Frontiers is ranked #90. That doesn't guarantee you'll like one more than the other. There are a lot of people that will say that Alien Frontiers is more fun, but according to that ranking there are people who think the opposite. Of course, no one will tell you that it's as hard to make time to play AF (well, few people, anyway, and they'd be wrong), but that's not what you asked.

Alien Frontiers has some flaws. If you're expecting it to be the end-all-be-all of gaming in order to make up for the "high" price tag, then you'll be disappointed. To me, it's a $50 game that's as good as or better than most other $50 games. But sometimes you can buy a $50 game for $30. If you're going to expect it to be twice as good as any other $50 game because you can't get a discount on it and have to pay shipping if you don't buy it local, well... you're going to be disappointed.

If you think that it looks interesting and don't mind putting the savings you gained on TI and other games towards paying retail for one game... well, it's a fun game. Read reviews first - in fact, read the negative reviews especially. Some people are put off by the potential for analysis paralysis and "kingmaking". And even though I disagree that it ruins the game, those people are not 100% wrong.
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Jason
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arkayn wrote:
DakotaDevil wrote:
If this game really is as good as many of you say it is, then it's probably worth the $60.


I'll be completely honest with you - you got, I believe, Twilight Imperium for $54. That is a $100 game. If you enjoy TI (and I have no reason to believe that you wouldn't - I haven't played it myself because I lack the 8+ hours at a time to commit to it (and also lack the game, but that wouldn't be a serious impediment if I wanted to play)), then that's a great deal. If you go by sheer components, then there's little chance you'll look at the pieces in Alien Frontiers and think that they are shinier or more numerous or better quality than TI. TI is a $100 game. If Alien Frontiers was $100, I'd be questioning the price of it myself.

If you go off gameplay, well.. Twilight Imperium is ranked #25, while Alien Frontiers is ranked #90. That doesn't guarantee you'll like one more than the other. There are a lot of people that will say that Alien Frontiers is more fun, but according to that ranking there are people who think the opposite. Of course, no one will tell you that it's as hard to make time to play AF (well, few people, anyway, and they'd be wrong), but that's not what you asked.

Alien Frontiers has some flaws. If you're expecting it to be the end-all-be-all of gaming in order to make up for the "high" price tag, then you'll be disappointed. To me, it's a $50 game that's as good as or better than most other $50 games. But sometimes you can buy a $50 game for $30. If you're going to expect it to be twice as good as any other $50 game because you can't get a discount on it and have to pay shipping if you don't buy it local, well... you're going to be disappointed.

If you think that it looks interesting and don't mind putting the savings you gained on TI and other games towards paying retail for one game... well, it's a fun game. Read reviews first - in fact, read the negative reviews especially. Some people are put off by the potential for analysis paralysis and "kingmaking". And even though I disagree that it ruins the game, those people are not 100% wrong.
Thanks for the post and analysis Chris.
 
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Danny Mack
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So, 7 months later...
I just played AF for the first time this past weekend, and I quite liked it. Then I found out it had been a Kickstarter. Then I tried to find it at CSI online. (You know where this is going.)

So there is a 3rd Edition (which is called the "International Edition", I understand? Not sure why...) But due to this distributor deal, it's sitting in a warehouse somewhere instead of being offered for sale at a discounted price at any OLGS. I read of a similar deal with this distributor co. and TMG, and all the outcry that accompanied it, together with complaints about greedy FLGS and Publishers. So, I am NOT trying to poke that dragon with a stick...I get it.

I guess I'm just wondering what the status is NOW. Are we looking at a 4th edition? Should I wait? How's this whole distribution deal working out for this game? Anybody know anything?

I hate thread redundancy, so I didn't want to start a new thread with the same title as this. But there's no news about the game on the publisher's website either. There seems to be a preoccupation with the iPad app drive on Kickstarter (?!) and the newest expansion. (So, I'm a little late to all of these parties, it seems.) So, I guess "thread necromancy" is one better than redundancy, right?

There's no game store around here. So what should I do? CSI is my usual supplier. Thoughts? Ideas? Newsbytes?
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Daniel Palmer
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The only way to get this online is through Game Salute's online store:

http://shop.gamesalute.com/collections/front-page-1/products...

I wouldn't worry about a possibility of a 4th edition. I haven't heard anything about it, and if they do make one I would be shocked if there wasn't some sort of upgrade pack that got you any new bits from that edition.
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Ian Kelly
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They will ship it. The in-store pickup thing is just an option.
 
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Alan F.
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I just loled at this whole thread..people are gonna do what they wanna do. I'm not gonna hate. Publisher/distributors can sell to whoever they want. Consumers can buy from whoever they want. But if there's not an option..you can't force anyone to do anything. That's just how it is.

I've been using CSI for a long time now, and get member discounts there. I wanted AF but since it's not on CSI I didn't buy it. But I'm not gonna hate because I don't really care. haha people should just chill out and play more games.
 
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Brian Schroth
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chrisbender wrote:
BagelManB wrote:
Accusing someone of a crime, like you did when you accused people of slander, actually can be slander.


Actually if it's in writing it's libel, if it's spoken then it's slanderous. But in this case it's neither because he was simply characterizing your post as being potentially slanderous, and since everyone could see what you posted that would not make it libelous.

If I went around and told all your friends "that guy has committed the crime of slander", then I'd be slandering you.


Apologies for the late response, but what he actually said was "My issue (and others') is with people slandering CMG and calling them all kinds of names."

He didn't say "people saying things about CMG that might potentially be slanderous". He said "people slandering CMG". No room for "potential" in that phrasing.

I'm aware of the difference between libel and slander, but when I'm already correcting a guy on several erroneous statements, I don't feel like it's particularly valuable to tack on yet another tangential correction except for scoring internet tough guy points. If someone is having trouble with the definition of one word, let's not throw another one at him until he's ready.
 
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Chris Bender
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BagelManB wrote:
chrisbender wrote:
BagelManB wrote:
Accusing someone of a crime, like you did when you accused people of slander, actually can be slander.


Actually if it's in writing it's libel, if it's spoken then it's slanderous. But in this case it's neither because he was simply characterizing your post as being potentially slanderous, and since everyone could see what you posted that would not make it libelous.

If I went around and told all your friends "that guy has committed the crime of slander", then I'd be slandering you.


Apologies for the late response, but what he actually said was "My issue (and others') is with people slandering CMG and calling them all kinds of names."

He didn't say "people saying things about CMG that might potentially be slanderous". He said "people slandering CMG". No room for "potential" in that phrasing.

I'm aware of the difference between libel and slander, but when I'm already correcting a guy on several erroneous statements, I don't feel like it's particularly valuable to tack on yet another tangential correction except for scoring internet tough guy points. If someone is having trouble with the definition of one word, let's not throw another one at him until he's ready.


Wow, that really is a late response. I couldn't remember what this was even about, and looking back through my posts I see that this is an eight month old discussion.

I've actually been working on avoiding getting sucked into these internet arguments lately. In looking back at this discussion I am more convinced than ever that this is a good idea.
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Laura Creighton
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It looks like the new release is out. At least I can order it here:
http://gameslore.com/acatalog/PR_Alien_Frontiers_Board_Game....
 
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