Ben Bateson
United Kingdom
Ross-on-Wye
Owner of original 'crappy art' GtR and pleased about it.
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I'm currently involved in a boiteajeux 4-player game. We're in the Round 11 harvest, and between the four of us, we currently have 20 rooms, which I think is quite impressive, especially if there's more to come.
The ten room house has been well-recorded (I've managed 10 clay rooms with Clay Supports/Frame Builder/Thatcher), but is there a theoretical maximum for all four players put together?
Can four players build 10 rooms each? If not, what's the maximum?
1) Using EIK, without the three 'extension' rooms in play
2) Using full EIK
3) Using EIK + G + WM
4) Using any decks.
I don't have any answers, so I'm hoping someone brighter than me will come up with some. 
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Benjamin Wells
United Kingdom
Bradford
W Yorkshire
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Just throwing it out there but I suspect it might be around 64?
Now I just need to find a way of achieving that, aim high.
Also is there any requirement not to loose horrifically, can the players ignore any attempt to feed or breed animals? I'm assuming this is a silly theoretical maximum, I like those best.
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Straw-thatched Roof + Axe + Master Forester covers 1 player without taking any resources from the board except 1S needed to get the axe out.
Thatcher + Ladder + Clay Deposit covers another player, again without needing resources from the board except the 2W needed for the ladder. Clay Deposit can be played on round 2 (by a different player), giving 13 rounds' worth of clay. You need 13 rooms to max out.
Clay Supports + "1 reed" action space + "2 clay" action space + "1 wood" action space covers a third player. 2C1R is needed for renovation, which these actions cover, and 2W is needed for Clay Supports, only 1 of which these actions cover.
That leaves the 2W, 3W, 1C, and RSf action spaces for the fourth player. Clay Roof means that's enough to build one wooden room per round as long as they take RSf every round save one.
The spare wood requirements can mostly be covered by the fourth player playing Wood Deliveryman, letting two other wood-requiring players take the 2W and 3W action spaces once each. There's also e.g. Wood Carver to get a 1W discount.
I'm sure there's more efficient ways to do this, but this is enough to prove that four players working together can each fill their farmyards with gigantic houses.
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I suspect 64 is not possible as you are limited to 60 spaces . . .
Straw thatched roof would require 3 grain fields, 2 I guess could be covered by the acreage but you'd still need a field on your farm eating into precious house space.
Also how many of the methods below would require you to build all your rooms on the last round, which not everyone can do?
That said I basically agree that you should have the occupations and minors available to give enough resources for everyone to build all or almost all their rooms.
Sorry, not a particularly helpful post this.
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Good call on Straw-Thatched Roof. There are other cards that could get you extra grain fields without using farm spaces:
* Scarecrow (Z deck) might be interpreted to let you triple-stack on the Acreage.
* Winter Garden and Baking Field (G deck) let you sow in your house or on the card, respectively.
I don't know that there's any extra grain field sowing without using farm spaces in the EIK decks, though.
As for building on the last round, Opinion Leader (Czech deck) can let everyone pile onto the same space. Head of the Family (E deck) can do the same thing for one player, at least for room building. Otherwise, the main reason to wait until the last round is for final resources; if you have alternate sources of those resources (e.g. Reed Deliveryman, Clay Pit) or enhancers (Wood Cart) then you don't need to wait for the last round to get all the resources you need.
So I guess what we do here is:
Player 4 plays Master Forester, Wood Deliveryman, Reed Deliveryman, Clay Deposit as his first four actions. Then he grabs wood in round 3 and uses it to play Wood Cart in round 4 (other round 3 action is spent on RSf), then starts taking wood and RSf repeatedly. He'll have plenty of wood and reed to build all his rooms by round 12.
Player 2 takes Clay Deposit every round, takes 2W at some point, and drops Thatcher and Ladder once the early rush is done. He's all set to build in round 14.
Player 1's only constraint is wood. He can grab wood off the board once at any time, without impacting player 4's collections, so he can build in round 13.
Player 3 can just drop Head of the Family.
So the only problem with this strategy is getting 3 grain fields without either using farm spaces or non-EIK decks.
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Shemp Fill-in: Chan?
United States
Fountain Valley
California
Which way did I go?
Pick a card.
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Bricklayer + Clay Plasterer + Clay Roof = 3 clay per room. Add Clay Mixer if needed.
Or Brushwood Collector + Forester gives you roofs for 10 rooms right there.
Add Animal Yard and Manure, and you can get a manure-load of wood from the Forester. Or you can use the Copse instead for not quite as much wood.
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Ooh a puzzle!
Room building Occs:
Clay Supports (2C/1W/1R), Carpenter (3 of X/2R to extend), Axe (2W/2R to extend Wood), Peat Hut (discard to build 1 Wood room with Renovate, 5fl 2R), Clay Plasterer (3C/2R to extend Clay), Weekend Worker (Cz-deck, build 1 room on Reno for 1 Reed/1 old material, 2 new material)
Reduction Occs:
Thatcher and Ladder (reduce Reed by 1), Gimlet (G-deck, reduce X room building by 1 X), Peat Moss (FotM, 2 less Wood/1 less Reed for Wood hut), Stonecutter (all Stone things are 1 Stone less), Bricklayer (2 less Clay for each Room), Frame Builder (replace 2 Clay/2 Stone with 1 Wood), Alternative Designer (replace wood with 2 Clay/Stone each), Wood Carver (first room only)
Roof building Occs:
Pelt Roof (G-deck, replace Reed with cooked animals), Clay Roof (replace Reed with Clay), Brushwood Roof (replace Reed with Wood), Brushwood Collector (replace Reed with 1 Wood), Straw-thatched Roof (eliminates Reed)
Extensions:
X-Hut extension (extends by 1), Master Builder (auto-extend when reaching 5 by 1), Hut Builder (extend by 1 in R11), Mason (auto-extend by 1 when reaching 4, Stone House only)
Renovations:
Renovator (2 less clay/stone to renovate)
Misc:
Remodelling (turns a stable into a wooden room), Building Plan (FotM, 1f, build 2 stables when building 2 rooms), Conservator (renovate to stone directly), Clay Starter (G-deck, auto-renovate to Clay for 1 food), Helper (Build Room even with others on it), Stone Crane (Build Room when others do), Builder's Trowel (renovate without action to clay), Hay Wagon (FotM, BR/Renovate after taking 3 Wood/3 Clay/2 Reed/2 Stone)
So, assuming people collaborate to get everyone fed and actions are abundant (safe assumption both ways), since this is the max we're talking about:
(EIK only) 4p has 6x14=84 Wood, 28 Reed, 3x14 = 42 Clay, 14+10+5=29 Stone (assuming ideal placement)
P1: Clay Supports, Thatcher, Bricklayer gives 1 Wood per room, so 13 Wood + 2 Wood (Clay Supports) + whatever Renovation is needed (2C1R). 15 Rooms
P2: Axe, Wood Carver, and Ladder would give 13W, 13R + 1W 1S for 15 Rooms, assuming Axe person hit Room every turn (with Helper, this is possible). Not using Straw-thatched here because P2 will need lots of actions for hitting Room (almost) every turn.
P3: Builder's Trowel + Clay Plasterer + Frame Builder + Brushwood Collector. 1C2W for each Room, for 13C26W + 1W (+3 Grain Fields). Renovation for 2C1R (whatever)
P4: Straw-Thatched Roof, Conservator, Carpenter, Clay Roof, Stonecutter. 2S2C for each room. Will probably require Stone Carrier to get enough Stone to actually get to 13 built rooms. 26S26C + 2S1R
Total is roughly 56W, 41C, 15R, 27S. Can grab some Occs to increase the amount of resources in the game, so pretty much everything's doable. Even without Wood carver at all you get 69 wood so it's not needed.
In total, I think you can max out 15 Rooms for each player. With G and other decks (FotM included), it'll be way easier to max. But I think it's doable with EIK only.
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Benjamin Wells
United Kingdom
Bradford
W Yorkshire
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Derakon wrote:
So the only problem with this strategy is getting 3 grain fields without either using farm spaces or non-EIK decks.
Acreage will do two of those with ease I don't know if there are any other 'field' cards that grow grain in EIK.
If you add WM Permaculturist enables you to have as many grain fields as you can collect grain almost.
JamesR wrote: I suspect 64 is not possible as you are limited to 60 spaces . . .
Unless of course you are using cards from farmers of the moor, that admittedly opens up a whole host of other issues like getting ride of tiles before being able to place rooms on them
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Mike T
United States
Maryland
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60 doesn't even sound that hard.
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Ben Bateson
United Kingdom
Ross-on-Wye
Owner of original 'crappy art' GtR and pleased about it.
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OK, what about the maximum number of rooms while still scoring something respectable? Let's say a minimum of 30 points.
I'm not convinced it's as easy as everyone thinks. With 4 players, you might not get your last family growth until round 10...
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Owner of original 'crappy art' GtR and pleased about it.
