I've never posted here before; but by the title, I suppose anything can be discussed. I always stand to be corrected.
I'm reading a book at the present moment in which a British military funeral is conducted. Described is a three-gun salute and the playing of a musical instrument.
In the US, the three-gun salute is standard; but I was wondering if the same is true in Britain. Also in the US, the song Taps is played by a bugler; but, Taps was written by ACW General Daniel Butterfield and, more than likely, is not the selection chosen in Britain.
In the interest of giving credit where credit is due, my avatar is a scan of a hand-drawn caricature by cartoonist Jim Naylor which was done at my company's 20th anniversary dinner.
I'm not an expert on these things, but this is Chit Chat, so why let that stop me?
"N gun" salutes are definitely part of our tradition - I would guess that it is part of our naval heritage (but that is pure speculation on my part). They are used to honour people - so they are fired to honour visiting dignitaries as much as at funerals etc (I seem to recall hearing that Barack Obama got one when he visited, but I might be mistaken on that one). I believe that the number of guns increases with the "rank" (coinstitutional rank as much as military) of the person being honoured - so a visiting head of state would get more than an ambassador, and the Queen gets most of all.
The bugle call would certainly be the Last Post - it is also used at Remembrance Parades (on Remembrance Day, the 11th November, or Remembrance Sunday) to mark the 2 minute silence.
It would be the Last Post. Not an easy one to play.
By a gun salute, it's more likely they mean rifles being fired upwards, in an orderly fashion, probably over the coffin or the grave. Gun salutes for dignatories or the bloody aristocrats who still deny us our equality would be done by field guns, usually in a nearby park such as Green Park or Hyde Park in London.
The British National anthem is currently God Save The Queen (skipping the verse about smashing the Scots). Nobody likes it, it's horribly dreary and dull, and the British people would much prefer Land Of Hope And Glory, or Rule Britannia.
However, at sporting fixtures, they pretend that the countries other than England in the Union are nations and have their own anthems. This is of course wrong, since they also don't give England the same courtesy, except more recently they have been using Jerusalem at the cricket and rugby. Separately, we don't play cricket and rugby at the same time.
The armed forces are I think probably the largest maintainers of protocol, strange traditions and so on here.
My late father was what was called a government scientist in the Ministry of Defence. Though actually really he was an engineer (in the professional sense of the word) but they didn't get called that for misguided status reasons. During his career he went occasionally to sea on trials. And on one occasion he and his wife (my non-late mother) were invited to a formal dinner on the trials ship, which was an RN warship. Now during the war ("the war" unqualified always means WWII) people like my father (who was too young for that) also occasionally went to sea and other places. And some got shot at, and some might have got captured (I don't know if any did). It's really a bad idea to let your enemy know he's captured one of your boffins, so they got put in uniform, and if captured they could try to blend in, keep their heads down and wait it out. And not get shot as spies, or worse. This is in the overlap between the Civil Service and the military, so of course there were rules. And one of those rules was an equivalence of civil service grade to military rank. So at a formal dinner my father was a Commander (whether full Commander or Lt. Commander I don't know for sure, but I suspect the former). So my mother was quite chuffed (let's use some period slang here) to be piped on board as a Commander and wife. Though the equivalence had probably drifted a bit - while I don't want to suggest my father wasn't of reasonable grade, I think the average Commander had more responsibility, more people under him, and was paid more by then. But protocol is protocol, even if now a few decades past its original purpose. And what people like my father did was of value to them. (On another occasion when at sea someone apparently started to explain some piece of kit in service to him. "I designed it" he said.)
Separately, we don't play cricket and rugby at the same time.
There's this apocryphal story of the Englishman (*) who was asked to explain cricket to an American. So he did his best (**) and at the end of it the American gasped and said "and they do all that on horses?" (***).
(*) It's a common American fault to say English when they mean British, or England rather than the UK. (We do the same when we say Holland. Or Yank.) But in some cases English is right, and cricket is one of those. (The Scots and Welsh play cricket at about the same level as the Americans.)
(**) Actually getting the gist over isn't that difficult, though I'm not going to try here. And I'm still more than slightly hazy on anything but the very basics of baseball. Or for that matter rugby (either code).
(***) Now polo, which is played on horses, really is the preserve of a certain social class. One in which God Save the Queen is about family for some of them. And my knowledge of the rules of polo makes me look an expert on baseball in comparison.
Separately, we don't play cricket and rugby at the same time.
There's this apocryphal story of the Englishman (*) who was asked to explain cricket to an American. So he did his best (**) and at the end of it the American gasped and said "and they do all that on horses?" (***).
(*) It's a common American fault to say English when they mean British, or England rather than the UK. (We do the same when we say Holland. Or Yank.) But in some cases English is right, and cricket is one of those. (The Scots and Welsh play cricket at about the same level as the Americans.)
(**) Actually getting the gist over isn't that difficult, though I'm not going to try here. And I'm still more than slightly hazy on anything but the very basics of baseball. Or for that matter rugby (either code).
(***) Now polo, which is played on horses, really is the preserve of a certain social class. One in which God Save the Queen is about family for some of them. And my knowledge of the rules of polo makes me look an expert on baseball in comparison.
Actually, the English cricket team includes the Welsh (though it's only referred to as England), as Welsh counties have been playing in the County championship for some time. Ireland are better than Scotland at cricket, and probably deserve a shot at being a Test nation (better than Zimbabwe at the moment, anyway).
This is not the cat you're looking for - some other cat maybe?
tout passe, tout lasse, tout casse
Dearlove wrote:
… to explain cricket to an American. So he did his best (**) …
(**) Actually getting the gist over isn't that difficult:
The Rules* of Cricket: You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side thats been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out. When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the men have out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game!
* The truly knowledgeable state that cricket has "Laws" not "Rules"
Quote:
(***) Now polo, which is played on horses, really is the preserve of a certain social class. One in which God Save the Queen is about family for some of them. And my knowledge of the rules of polo makes me look an expert on baseball in comparison.
Polo actually has simpler rules than cricket - it is just that there is rather more room for interpretation by the umpires and referee. But then it could be said to be a marginally more civilized and less violent version of buzkashi.
The British National anthem is currently God Save The Queen (skipping the verse about smashing the Scots). Nobody likes it, it's horribly dreary and dull, and the British people would much prefer Land Of Hope And Glory, or Rule Britannia.
However, at sporting fixtures, they pretend that the countries other than England in the Union are nations and have their own anthems. This is of course wrong, since they also don't give England the same courtesy, except more recently they have been using Jerusalem at the cricket and rugby. Separately, we don't play cricket and rugby at the same time.
Must be Roman.... Oh and Chariot Racing.... Jousting and melee. Exempt from Health and Safety legislation. Now that would be some good Monday Night Sports
Edited for stupid autocorrection, of a stupid persons spelling
This is not the cat you're looking for - some other cat maybe?
tout passe, tout lasse, tout casse
EYE of NiGHT wrote:
The British National anthem is currently God Save The Queen
A visiting American president is rumoured to have commented during his visit to Buckingham Palace "Hey those guards have a great band - they not only played The Star Spangled Banner but they also played America!"
