So, if I've got this right, at military funerals in Britain, they play Last Post, followed by God Save the Queen by Johnny Rotten and the Sex Pistols, are then piped aboard a naval ship, where they proceed to engage in a rugby match for five days, dressed as gladiators in white, while cannons are fired in the background.
When the world hands you a Jeffrey, furry walls will make it fine.
apatheticexecutioner wrote:
So, if I've got this right, at military funerals in Britain, they play Last Post, followed by God Save the Queen by Johnny Rotten and the Sex Pistols, are then piped aboard a naval ship, where they proceed to engage in a rugby match for five days, dressed as gladiators in white, while cannons are fired in the background.
What a history! What a people!
You forgot they make "Water Music" on the Thames, and the Queen sits on a real old Scone lodged in her throne.
And one of those rules was an equivalence of civil service grade to military rank.
and
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But protocol is protocol, even if now a few decades past its original purpose.
Actually it wasn't past it's purpose, and in fact the same rules still apply today. It's important for things like accommodation; if a civil servant is going to be staying on base / ship etc, which mess do you put them in, Officers, Sergeants or Other Ranks?
Thus you might for example you might end up in the Officers Mess, even if you would prefer to be in the Sergeants Mess (the bar is usually much more fun).
This is not the cat you're looking for - some other cat maybe?
tout passe, tout lasse, tout casse
Cal Mac wrote:
Thus you might for example you might end up in the Officers Mess, even if you would prefer to be in the Sergeants Mess (the bar is usually much more fun).
In some parts of the British army you may well find that the Sergeants Mess has more formality and stronger traditions than the Officers.
cue an anecdote:
first a minor(?) bit of background: the Household Cavalry does not have Sergeants (Sergeants historically were foot soldiers) but give the equivalent rank the name "Corporal of Horse". This in turn means that they do not have a "Sergeants Mess" but use some other name - in what follows I'll call it the Senior NCOs Mess though I don't think that is the official term.
Anyhow
A few years ago I went to a meeting organised by the Civil Service Riding Club* which was held by invitation at the Senior NCOs Mess at the cavalry barracks at Knightsbridge. I was one of the first to arrive and, as usual was wearing fairly casual clothes. Shortly after I arrived and was admiring the massive collection of silverware (I don't think the CoHs would ever be short of appropriate tasks for "defaulters"), I was politely approached by one of the NCOs who very politely informed me that it was a rule in the mess that ties be worn. He had correctly assumed that I did not have a tie with me and so loaned me one. (The only time I have ever worn a Guards tie!). By the time 20 more attendees had turned-up without ties they had to quietly let things pass.
* The Civil Service Riding Club is based in central London and used to keep its horses at the Royal Mews at Buckingham Palace. A friend of mine was a member and she used to ride out from there, up to Hyde Park corner, and across into Hyde Park where there is a riding arena mainly used by the Cavalry. Anyone who has ever driven round Hyde Park Corner will be astonished at such a feat.
The British National anthem is currently God Save The Queen (skipping the verse about smashing the Scots). Nobody likes it, it's horribly dreary and dull, and the British people would much prefer Land Of Hope And Glory, or Rule Britannia.
Speak for yourself (and consider that the polite response to your nonsense comment).
My late father was what was called a government scientist in the Ministry of Defence. Though actually really he was an engineer (in the professional sense of the word) but they didn't get called that for misguided status reasons. During his career he went occasionally to sea on trials. And on one occasion he and his wife (my non-late mother) were invited to a formal dinner on the trials ship, which was an RN warship. Now during the war ("the war" unqualified always means WWII) people like my father (who was too young for that) also occasionally went to sea and other places. And some got shot at, and some might have got captured (I don't know if any did). It's really a bad idea to let your enemy know he's captured one of your boffins, so they got put in uniform, and if captured they could try to blend in, keep their heads down and wait it out. And not get shot as spies, or worse. This is in the overlap between the Civil Service and the military, so of course there were rules. And one of those rules was an equivalence of civil service grade to military rank. So at a formal dinner my father was a Commander (whether full Commander or Lt. Commander I don't know for sure, but I suspect the former). So my mother was quite chuffed (let's use some period slang here) to be piped on board as a Commander and wife. Though the equivalence had probably drifted a bit - while I don't want to suggest my father wasn't of reasonable grade, I think the average Commander had more responsibility, more people under him, and was paid more by then. But protocol is protocol, even if now a few decades past its original purpose. And what people like my father did was of value to them. (On another occasion when at sea someone apparently started to explain some piece of kit in service to him. "I designed it" he said.)
Still done. All senior Civil Servants have equivalent military ranks due to the close working relationships between the military and government organisations around the world. As an example, the commander of Task Force Helmand in Afghanistan is a Brigadier, whereas the head of the Military Stabilisation Support Group is a civil servant with Major General (2*) equivalent rank. I suspect that the British Ambassador has equivalent General (4*) rank as this would ensure he retains pre-emenence in the country as the highest British authority.
These arrangements allow all concerned to know exactly where each sits in the hierarchy which is imperative when working in a complex and vested-interest environment. Nonetheless it still doesn't stop people bitching, backstabbing and generally fucking things up for their own self-gain...
And one of those rules was an equivalence of civil service grade to military rank.
and
Quote:
But protocol is protocol, even if now a few decades past its original purpose.
Actually it wasn't past it's purpose
You missed out that I said original purpose.
The other things you note still have to be done even without grade/rank equivalence. If the person doing what was my father's job now was in the same situation he'd no longer be a civil servant, but an employee of a private company. He still would have to eat in a mess, and they would have to (and do, I know people who have been in that situation) pick one based on something less formulaic.
The U.S. Military also does equivalent grade/rank. A friend of my mine worked in the National Highway and Transportation Safety Board as a director (he's since been promoted). He had to visit a military base where they were doing some research. He was given the equivalence of a Colonel for how he was to be greeted and treated while on base.
I've FOUNDS the "Canadienne Nationalesque" anthem ONE! 
