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TDaver wrote: Steye: We tried doing things to revealed cylons and cylon leaders in V7 and V14. Not fun. InfoCynic: We'll get back on this one once we sort out the wall of text  LL6869: - the drawback thing is not good. Imagine a Rebel Roslin or Boomer. - what happens when an unrevealed Rebel is executed? - what is the incentive for the rebel to ever reveal? - it seems we're keeping the abilities. Scrap the STATE please. - I wanted to say I don't like that it can attack centurions. Then I saw it can damage Galactica with it! I like that !! - Include a non-IN rule saying if any effect instructs you to draw 1 trauma and your not playing with trauma tokens, draw 2 Treachery cards instead - It's not nice that you have to take out all four damage tokens. You don't need to take out Fuel to blow up Galactica. - Wherever you say "Move action" say "Movement ability" instead (that means you can't do that on XO.) - Rebel Cylon needs to discard 1 trust token to activate Galactica and C1 locations EXCEPT THE BRIG! - And the most important question: What will the YAARC card say?
In order:
- Good point
- How about: Discard down to three cards, follow the actions for revealing as a Rebel Cylon and immediately draw two treachery?
- I assume you mean the Condition Level? Or that one thing for the Missile Batteries? I don't know which one you mean here.
- Good idea.
- Oh, good point.
- Which means what now? I assumed we wanted people to do the Move things on an XO?
- Right.
- Argh. Do we want it to be fancy, or do we want it to be straightforward?
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ABCoLD
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Provisional:
 If three dials are Red before the Rebel Cylon reveals, the next human player is sent to Sickbay, all human players draw two Treachery cards. The Rebel Basestar is considered destroyed.
If four dials are Red before the Rebel Cylon reveals, the next human player is executed, all human players draw a Trauma.
Ionian Nebulousless
Any effect that requires a person to draw Trauma instead forces them to draw two Treachery cards instead.
If playing without Treachery, any effect that forces a player to draw Trauma instead allows the next Cylon to act to choose to draw 1 card, or to force the player drawing treachery to discard 2 cards. If there are no revealed Cylons, the player discards two cards.
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ABCoLD
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Heh, I just had this idea, let me know what you think.
You are a Rebel Cylon wrote: Action: Reveal this card if there is at least one revealed Cylon in play. You are the Rebel Cylon, place the Rebel Basestar behind Galactica and move to the Meditation Chamber. The next Cylon in the turn order decides who gets your other loyalty cards.
At the start of your turn you may determine the Condition Level of the Rebel Basestar.
How about making it so that the Rebel has to wait till a Cylon shows up? This could make people very antsy and reward smart Cylons who slow play. Suddenly two dials are in the Red and the humans freak, start executing innocent people, trying to force a Cylon reveal. 
Huh, that could also be a way of prematurely revealing the Rebel Cylon, if someone caps them before a Cylon reveals then they just reveal and pass of their loyalty cards. Whatcha think?
Formalize Alliance wrote: Quorum Card
Action: Choose one of the following. Either the Rebel Cylon does not have to discard Trust tokens to use Galactica locations, or humans do not have to discard Trust tokens to use Rebel Basestar locations. Discard this card if the Rebel Basestar is destroyed or Colonial One is destroyed. All humans gain a Trust token. (Including the Rebel.)
Roll a die, on a 1-3 lose 1 Morale.
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Carl Bussema
United States
Lansing
Michigan
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Pretty much everyone agrees that you can't play 3 on 3; you have to metagame the Base game Symp in order to make sure it's 4 v 2 after sleeper.
Are there any PBFs that had a human win after going to 3v3? My guess if you look at the stats for 6 players w/Symp, it's going to be 90%+ 4v2 post-sleeper, and the remaining less than 10% will all be Cylon wins.
The Pegasus Symp is terrible because you don't have enough time to accomplish your agenda, and more generally, because the as-written agendas are not very well designed, ranging from impossible to control to easy (but boring) and tends to be a bad time for the leader who has to fight to get the humans to trust him at all and usually winds up strongly hinting what his agenda is without actually breaking the secrecy rules.
The no-symp variant costs the humans 4 resources and grants revealed Cylons an extra draw per turn (the benefit of which is hard to quantify, probably small but not very small). IMO this is the best way to play 6 players currently, barring fan expansions that I have not tested.
So, if you have a way to reveal on turn 1 and make this into a 2.5 v 3 or so, the humans are going to have a hell of an uphill battle the whole game. Of course with only 3 locations you can activate (Caprica, Cylon Fleet, Human Fleet) it wouldn't be very exciting, but worst of two crises or the worst possible ship activation could be pretty good, and when you get allies backing you up with the basestar bridge and/or Super Crises and/or Cylon Fleet, the humans will be really hurting.
I think restricting the reveal to post-sleeper makes sense thematically... it's not until after the sleeper phase that you can wake up to your true self as a Cylon OR realize just how wrong your fellow Cylons really are. Either way, the side you join doesn't trust you, so there you get your thematic justification for the restrictions on locations/titles/etc.
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Carl Bussema
United States
Lansing
Michigan
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Also as a minor but possibly significant point, I'm trying to avoid reliance on any other modules including Pegasus / Treachery or Cylon Fleet or Trauma. Rules for how the RebCy interacts with those are good, but it would be nice to not have to have those in play to use this.
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ABCoLD
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InfoCynic wrote: Also as a minor but possibly significant point, I'm trying to avoid reliance on any other modules including Pegasus / Treachery or Cylon Fleet or Trauma. Rules for how the RebCy interacts with those are good, but it would be nice to not have to have those in play to use this.
Read Ionian Nebulousness this page.
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ABCoLD
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InfoCynic wrote: Pretty much everyone agrees that you can't play 3 on 3; you have to metagame the Base game Symp in order to make sure it's 4 v 2 after sleeper. Are there any PBFs that had a human win after going to 3v3? My guess if you look at the stats for 6 players w/Symp, it's going to be 90%+ 4v2 post-sleeper, and the remaining less than 10% will all be Cylon wins. The Pegasus Symp is terrible because you don't have enough time to accomplish your agenda, and more generally, because the as-written agendas are not very well designed, ranging from impossible to control to easy (but boring) and tends to be a bad time for the leader who has to fight to get the humans to trust him at all and usually winds up strongly hinting what his agenda is without actually breaking the secrecy rules. The no-symp variant costs the humans 4 resources and grants revealed Cylons an extra draw per turn (the benefit of which is hard to quantify, probably small but not very small). IMO this is the best way to play 6 players currently, barring fan expansions that I have not tested. So, if you have a way to reveal on turn 1 and make this into a 2.5 v 3 or so, the humans are going to have a hell of an uphill battle the whole game. Of course with only 3 locations you can activate (Caprica, Cylon Fleet, Human Fleet) it wouldn't be very exciting, but worst of two crises or the worst possible ship activation could be pretty good, and when you get allies backing you up with the basestar bridge and/or Super Crises and/or Cylon Fleet, the humans will be really hurting. I think restricting the reveal to post-sleeper makes sense thematically... it's not until after the sleeper phase that you can wake up to your true self as a Cylon OR realize just how wrong your fellow Cylons really are. Either way, the side you join doesn't trust you, so there you get your thematic justification for the restrictions on locations/titles/etc.
I'm seriously confused. What?
This is something TDaver will have to work on if he wants it. I'm working on a variant that is more interesting than Sympathizer, not a variant to add a third Cylon player of any flavor to the 6 player game. I'm not interested in this time at coming up with even more complicated and esoteric rules that would make this work in a 3v3 game. (Because as written if the Rebel were on the Cylon side it would be 3v3 except worse.)
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Carl Bussema
United States
Lansing
Michigan
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Yeah I feel like there's really two ideas going around here... your replacement Cylon Leader and the original proposed "Rebel Cylon" who might side with either team depending on either conditions, his preference, or some other factor. Perhaps we should have two threads. I felt I was offering feedback on something that matched the OP's request for feedback on a Rebel Cylon who could under different circumstances play for either team (again attempting to find someone who would play both sides against the middle). Whatever you're working on, it doesn't strike me as in line with that, but I'm not here to fight. I'm just getting confused jumping back and forth, so if TDaver or anyone else wants to continue discussions on a Rebel Cylon (as described here), then feel free to open a new thread. (Unsubscribed.)
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David Turczi
Hungary
Budapest
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Sorry if anyone's ideas (in this case InfoCynic's) are getting scrapped, but I've scrapped so many of my own ideas, that I can't even feel bad about it
So let me summarize LL86869's ideas and twist them to my own taste:
- For every resource in the red when Rebel Cylon reveals damage the rebel basestar once.
- The rebel cannot willingly reveal while there are no revealed cylons AND he can only do so after sleeper.
- Upon reveal, the rebel can go to any undamaged location on the rebel basestar
- If all locations are damaged, the basestar is immediately destroyed and rebel goes to sickbay
- If an unrevealed rebel is executed:
Lose 1 morale.
Discard all his skill cards
Immediately move to Meditation Chamber (or sickbay if basestar goes boom)
For every resource in the red damage the basestar.
- If a revealed rebel is executed:
Discard all his skill cards
Move to Meditation Chamber if on Rebel Basestar, sickbay if not (or RB is destroyed in the process)
- Rebel cannot win unrevealed.
Also, I'd restore that if rebel is sent to sickbay from Galactica or C1, he does go sickbay, to spare him the free trip home.
Also, I agree we should keep this module trauma and treachery free.
Let's take advantage of the fact that there's almost always be a revealed cylon around. The 4th damage token should read: all revealed cylons may immediately draw any 2 skillcards.
Also if the Rebel Basestar is destroyed all revealed cylons may immediately roll a die: on 1-4 draw a new super crisis, 5-8 draw any 2 skillcards.
And I think the rebel basestar shouldn't take 4 damage tokens to blow up, but rather if all 3 are in place and it takes one more hit, it's gone.
Can you weave this into your wall of text or should I?
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David Turczi
Hungary
Budapest
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This is an update on the Rebel Cylon rules as I understand them to be right now. Items in Italics are changes since LL6869's last wall, Underlined items mean something that's especially important. Let me know if we're getting closer.
It is a sympathizer mechanic for 4 and 6 players.
Start with -1 food and -1 population.
Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): I'm somewhat unsure of this, but the Rebel Basestar feels like a real powerful pro-human tool right now
Loyalty Deck for 4: 1 YAAC, 1 YAARC, 6 FF/YANAC (+1 YANAC if Exodus rules, Baltar, Boomer)
Loyalty Deck for 6: 2 YAAC, 1 YAARC, 9 FF/YANAC (+1 YANAC if Exodus rules, Baltar, Boomer)
Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): No need to hold back on the second cylon if the Rebel is always with the humans
Loyalty Card
Quote: You are a Rebel Cylon
You cannot win with this card unrevealed, once revealed, you win with the Humans.
Action: If 4 or more distance has been traveled, there is a revealed cylon in play and any of these conditions are met reveal this card:
- 2 or more civilian ship has been destoryed
- There are 2 or more damage tokens on Galactica
- Pegasus has been destroyed
- There is a centurion on the boarding party track
- A human has been executed
If you are in the Brig when revealing, discard down to 3 cards.
After revealing this card proceed to Cylon Civil War phase (see rules)
Cylon Civil War phase
 The Rebel Basestar is placed behind Galactica.
 The Rebel Basestar is damaged once for each resource dial in the red.
 The rebel is moved to any undamaged location of his choice on the Rebel Basestar.
 The rebel may set the Condition Level to any position he chooses.
If an unrevealed rebel (a human player holding a YAARC card) is executed he discards all his skill cards and the Cylon Civil War is immediately triggered, but he is sent to Meditation Chamber instead of a location of his choice.
If a player holding a YAAC and YAARC is executed, he is considered a Cylon, and can pass off his YAARC loyalty as usual.
If after revealing the rebel has other loyalty cards he may immediately pass them of as usual.
Playing as the Rebel Cylon
Rebel draws three cards at the start of their turn from any colors, max one of each.
The effects on the rebel's character card are no longer in effect (as it is for revealed cylons)
Rebel can use the text of all cards except Treachery. He can be the target of XOs, and can benefit from Support the People.
Rebel can play up to 2 cards into skill checks
 Rebel can move to any human ship (by discarding a skill card) but must spend a Trust token (see below) to activate a Galactica or Colonial One location other than the Brig. He cannot activate Pegasus locations.
 Rebel CAN become President/Admiral/CAG, but considered last in line of succession for all three. To become CAG, the Rebel Cylon must have 2 Trust tokens, to become President or Admiral they must have 4.
If at the end of the rebel's turn he holds a title, but doesn't have the necessary amount of trust, roll a die (for each undeserved title):
Quote: 1-2: Draw a Civilian ship to destroy (civ leaves the fleet in protest)
3-4: Rebel is sent to Brig
5-6: Rebel must pass that title along to the next in the Line of Succession
7-8: Nothing happens
Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): Do something "exactly once" is a bad mechanic, thus I came up with this
 If a (revealed) rebel is executed, he's sent to Meditation Chamber and must discard all his skill cards and one trust token. (If the Rebel Basestar is destroyed, he is sent to Sickbay instead.) Do not lose morale for the execution.
Rebel Basestar
The Rebel Basestar is a ship AND a board.
Rebel and human players can move to and from Rebel Basestar by discarding a skill card as usual.
The ship itself is NOT a Cylon ship. (i.e. not removed by Cylon Genocide or Leoben)
Ship locations have three separate functions, dependent on the Condition Level of the ship.
Characters on the Rebel Basestar gain the following action:
Quote: Action: Once per turn move the Rebel Basestar to an adjacent area, then take another action. Human players must discard a trust token to do this.
If a Rebel Basestar location is damaged while characters (human or rebel) are there, or a character currently on the Rebel Basestar is sent to Sickbay via a crisis card, they're sent to Meditation Chamber instead.
At the beginning of his Movement phase the rebel may set the ship's Condition Level to any level.
The three Condition Levels has corresponding passive abilities:
Quote: Offensive: The Rebel Basestar may be moved to any space area with one action.
Defensive: The first attack in every turn against the Rebel Basestar automatically fails.
Support: Whenever a civilian ship would be destroyed (anywhere) the Rebel Cylon may damage the Rebel Basestar and escort the civilian instead of destroying it.
Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): See, I named them
The Rebel Basestar has four locations. Three of them have different actions depending on the Condition Level.
Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): I'm not gonna italic them. Most of them are new.
Meditation Chamber wrote: Hazardous Location
You only draw two skill cards at the start of your turn.
Action: Repair a Rebel Basestar location.
Missile Batteries wrote: Offensive Action: Roll a die. On 1-3 damage two vipers in your area and discard 1 trust token. On 4-8 destroy 4 raiders.
Defensive Action: Attack a Cylon ship in your area.
Support Movement: Discard a skill card to move 1 basestar or 1 heavy raider or 3 raiders in this area to any other space area.
Rebel Hybrid wrote: Offensive Action Discard 3 random skill cards and a Trust token to increase the Jump Preparation track by 1.
Defensive Action: Roll a die. On 1-4 discard 1 random skill card and a trust token. On 5-8 you may look at the top 2 cards of the Crisis or Destiny deck and place one on the top and one on the bottom.
Support Action: Draw and examine the top two cards of the Destiny Deck. You may then choose to discard them OR take another action.
Basestar Control wrote: Offensive Action: Roll a die.
1-2: Damage Galactica and discard a trust token.
3-5: No effect
6-7: Remove a centurion from the Boarding Party Track
8: Remove two centurions from the Boarding Party Track.
Defensive Action: Escort a civilian ship in your space area and give another player a trust token.
Support Action: Discard a skill card to draw any 2 skill cards (they may come from outside of your skill set) and give a player a Trust token.
If an action (or a damage token) directs a player to discard a Trust token and he doesn't have any, he must discard one skill card randomly.
(But you can't discard skill card to ACTIVATE a location instead of a Trust token...)
Rebel Basestar Combat
Cylon ships automatically target the Rebel Basestar. Order of target preference is now: Rebel Basestar, Unmanned Vipers, Manned Vipers, Civilian Ships, Galactica
If the Rebel Basestar is in the same space area as a Basestar, the Basestar will attack the Rebel Basestar on a Basestar Attack activation instead of Galactica.
There are 4 damage tokens for Rebel Basestar; Missile Batteries, Rebel Hybrid, Basestar Control, Loss of Trust. Locations may be repaired using any effect that would repair a Galactica location, or by using the Meditation Chamber. If Loss of Trust is drawn, every human and the rebel must discard a Trust token then discard the Loss of Trust damage token.
If all 3 location damage tokens are drawn (or the Rebel Basestar is destroyed by a nuke), remove the Rebel Basestar board and token from play. Any characters aboard the Rebel Basestar are sent to Sickbay, every revealed cylon rolls a die:
Quote: 1-4: Draw another Super Crisis
5-8: Draw 3 skill cards
The current player may NOT assign Galactica damage to Rebel Basestar.
Rebel Basestar damage table:
Quote: Attacked by Raider: 6-8 damaged
Attacked by Basestar: 4-8 damaged
Hit With Nuke: 8 destroyed (Along with every other ship in that sector of space.)
Missile Batteries attack table:
Quote: Raider: Automatically destroyed
Heavy Raider: 6-8 destroyed
Basestar: 4-7 damaged, 8 damaged twice
Trust Tokens
Every time a human targets the rebel with an effect that would grant him an action, or the rebel is the target of a Quorum Action (except Arrest Order and Execute Prisoner) the rebel may choose himself or the human targeting him to gain a Trust token.
Every time the rebel targets a human with an effect that would grant them an action the human may choose himself or the rebel to gain a Trust token.
To use a Rebel Basestar location, a human must discard a Trust token. For the rebel to use a Galactica (or Colonial One) location (except the Brig), he must discard a Trust token. (Rebels may never use Pegasus locations.)
New Quorum Card
Formalize Alliance wrote: Action: Choose one of the following. Either the Rebel Cylon does not have to discard Trust tokens to use Galactica locations, or humans do not have to discard Trust tokens to use Rebel Basestar locations. Discard this card if the Rebel Basestar is destroyed or Colonial One is destroyed. All human players and the rebel gains one Trust token.
Then roll a die, on a 3 or less lose 1 morale.
Playing with other modules
Rebel Cylon is designed to best work with 6 players to Kobol or Ionian Nebula with the Cylon Fleet Board in play, however it is possible to use most other modules (except the Cylon Leader) with it.
Without the CFB: Read any effect that would escort a civilian ship as "remove the civilian from the board"
With Personal Goals: Personal Goals in an unrevealed rebel's hand do not cause to lose resources.
With New Caprica: The Rebel is treated as a human player on New Caprica (but still only draws 3 cards) and can activate NC locations' human actions without discarding a Trust token. At the Battle of New Caprica the Rebel Basestar is placed where it was at the time of the jump to New Caprica (and is again available to move to). If a rebel has 2 or more Trust tokens AND left on New Caprica during the jumpaway, lose one morale.
With Colony: The Rebel is treated as a human player during the Battle of the Colony (but still only draws 3 cards) and can activate Colony locations' human actions without discarding a Trust token. At the beginning of the Battle of Colony, the rebel may decide whether to bring the Rebel Basestar along. If he decides NOT to (he joins the battle fully), he may activate Galactica locations without discarding a Trust token, if he decides to bring it along (noone to protect the civilians) lose 2 population.
With Opera House skill cards: If activating a location with Give the Order players still need to discard Trust token if they would normally
With Ioninan Nebula: A revealed Rebel is considered a human when dealing with Allies, he can discard Trauma the same way as humans. Additionally there are 4 new allies:
Rebel D'Anna wrote: Missile Batteries
Benevolent - Joint Operation: Every human and the rebel gains one Trust token.
Antagonistic - Taking Hostages: Target any human player and roll a die. On 1 he's executed, on 2-6 he's sent to Brig.
Sonja wrote: President's Office
Benevolent - Fair Alliance: The President may immediately draw or play a Quorum Card. You gain one Trust token.
Antagonistic - Broken Alliance: Every human and the rebel discards one Trust token.
Natalie Faust wrote: Basestar Control
Benevolent - Coordinates to the Hub: Every Revealed Cylon player discards 2 skill cards.
Antagonistic - Shot Dead: The rebel is executed
Redstripe wrote: Rebel Hybrid
Benevolent - Helps to fight: You may remove one centurion from the Boarding Party Track.
Antagonistic - Turns on you: Place one centurion on the Boarding Party Track
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I like most changes. Of course the thing I have concerns about is mostly the locations.
-On the Offensive your Basestar Missile Batteries can't damage Heavy Raiders or Basestars. You can only damage those two types of Cylon ships while in 'Defensive' mode.
-I'm not sure thematically how your Support mode Missile Batteries is supposed to work. Are they hacking the Cylon ships? (The reason I had this be the single attack is because they're still fighting for the Humans, but they're being extra careful to not shoot down Vipers!)
-Offensive Mode Rebel Hybrid, this cost seems too high. The Engine Room only requires 2 cards to ensure a jump icon. (I realize this location could potentially grant two jump icons a turn.) Considering that the Rebel Cylon only draws three cards, I think it's fair to just strike the Trust Icon requirement too. Humans will have to anyway, and that's all the cards the Rebel would draw for a turn.
-I would like to see this be that on a 1-3 it Damages the location instead. That makes it dangerous. Again, I think the Trust token penalty is extraneous.
-Support action is... meh... not horrid (I just wouldn't use it! But that's not a bad thing in and of itself.)
-Basestar Control... I just don't like the Rebel Basestar to be able to escort Civilian ships, maybe that's just me.
What do you think about switching Basestar Control Support and Rebel Hybrid Offense? (While the ship is in attack mode the Hybrid has crazy, rambling, but insightful ideas. In Support mode the Basestar Control can link it's jump computers to the Fleet's?)
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David Turczi
Hungary
Budapest
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LL6869 wrote: On the Offensive your Basestar Missile Batteries can't damage Heavy Raiders or Basestars. You can only damage those two types of Cylon ships while in 'Defensive' mode.
Okay, Missile Offensive will say Offensive Action: Roll a die. On 1-3 damage two vipers in your area and discard 1 trust token. On 4-8 destroy 4 raiders, or 1 heavy raider or damage a basestar in your area.
Quote: -I'm not sure thematically how your Support mode Missile Batteries is supposed to work. Are they hacking the Cylon ships? Yes, the words "hacking" and "defensive missile barrage" was floating in my head.
Quote: Offensive Mode Rebel Hybrid, this cost seems too high. The Engine Room only requires 2 cards to ensure a jump icon. (I realize this location could potentially grant two jump icons a turn.) Considering that the Rebel Cylon only draws three cards, I think it's fair to just strike the Trust Icon requirement too. Humans will have to anyway, and that's all the cards the Rebel would draw for a turn.
Ok, Trust token dropped.
Quote: I would like to see this be that on a 1-3 it Damages the location instead. That makes it dangerous. Again, I think the Trust token penalty is extraneous.
Ok.
Quote: What do you think about switching Basestar Control Support and Rebel Hybrid Offense? I don't feel that skill card drawing should be an Offensive action. Besides, the passive ability is the weakest on Offensive, thus the most powerful action should be Offensive...
So the locations:
Missile Batteries wrote: Offensive Action: Roll a die. On 1-3 damage two vipers in your area and discard 1 trust token. On 4-8 destroy 4 raiders, 1 heavy raider or damage a basestar in your area.
Defensive Action: Attack a Cylon ship in your area.
Support Movement: Discard a skill card to move 1 basestar or 1 heavy raider or 3 raiders in this area to any other space area.
Rebel Hybrid wrote: Offensive Action Discard 3 random skill cards to increase the Jump Preparation track by 1.
Defensive Action: Roll a die. On 1-3 Damage the Rebel Hybrid. On 4-8 you may look at the top 2 cards of the Crisis or Destiny deck and place one on the top and one on the bottom.
Support Action: Draw and examine the top two cards of the Destiny Deck. You may then choose to discard them OR take another action.
Basestar Control wrote: Offensive Action: Roll a die.
1-2: Damage Galactica and discard a trust token.
3-5: No effect
6-7: Remove a centurion from the Boarding Party Track
8: Remove two centurions from the Boarding Party Track.
Defensive Action: Escort a civilian ship in your space area and give another player a Trust token.
Support Action: Discard a skill card to draw any 2 skill cards (they may come from outside of your skill set) and give a player a Trust token.
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David Turczi
Hungary
Budapest
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Bump, Allies are added to my previous post.
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Robert Stewart
United Kingdom
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TDaver wrote: Rebel Hybrid wrote: Support Action: Draw and examine the top two cards of the Destiny Deck. You may then choose to discard them OR take another action.
I'm not sure you meant this action to do what it says it does - if you take the top two Destiny cards into your hand of skill cards, why would you ever move them to the relevant discard piles rather than take another action? (or, if the extra action is instead of drawing the cards, why would you ever activate the location just to take a different action?)
My guess at what you intended would be:
Quote: Support Action: Look at the top two cards of the Destiny Deck. You may then choose to discard them OR take another action.
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David Turczi
Hungary
Budapest
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rmsgrey wrote: My guess at what you intended would be: Quote: Support Action: Look at the top two cards of the Destiny Deck. You may then choose to discard them OR take another action.
Yes, thank you that is what I meant. I'll drop the "draw" word, and keep "examine" - to match up the text of Guide them to their Destiny
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ABCoLD
United States
Nebraska
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If we test this in a rematch, let's just use this and your discarded treachery go into Destiny Deck rule. I want to really nail down how well this works.
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David Turczi
Hungary
Budapest
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LL6869 wrote: If we test this in a rematch, let's just use this and your discarded treachery go into Destiny Deck rule. I want to really nail down how well this works.
My thoughts exactly
I plan to have a pure rebel Cylon and a pure Colony game before I add EVERYTHING together (faith, infinity, etc)
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ABCoLD
United States
Nebraska
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So! There are a few things that are just bugging me still. Things I don't think are implemented as well as they could be. I could be entirely wrong, but I don't understand some things yet... and I dearly love understanding the why of things. So here are a few of my concerns right now.
Skill Card Contributions
Limiting the Rebel Cylon's contribution to 2 cards in a skill check seems odd. With them only drawing 3 cards it would require a significant investment of their time and resources to play more than 2 cards into a check anyway. With that being the case, shouldn't you at least leave the option open? I don't see a strong argument that if they want to blow their hand on a single check that they shouldn't be able to.
Condition Level Passive Abilities
The attack passive ability seems like it would be a really good ability to simply give the rebel Hybrid on the attack action. Isn't letting them bounce around the board a little too powerful? Also, automatically making attacks fail on the defensive... this just strikes me as something that's going to be exploitable that we're not seeing. And for support...
Rebel Basestar Escorting Ships
I don't like this at all. It strikes me as very unthematic and more of a rules nudge. And I think it's a bad rules nudge. It seriously reduces the incentive of humans to worry about Command/flying Vipers once the Rebel Basestar is in play. It seems like it's a lot better to simply use Comms to move all the Civie ships to where the Rebel Basestar is and then park it in defensive mode. Since Raiders will have a hard time hitting it and it can shoot back/escort civies out. (The Rebel Cylons never seemed to be this helpful in the show, they just hated the other cylons and used the humans to deal with shiz for the most part.)
Missile Batteries
This seems like a case of trying too hard to make it not like Main Batteries/Pegasus CIC. I like the idea of letting someone simply make four attacks on the offensive. This lets them pepper Heavy Raiders or Basestars or regular raiders... and adds some spice to the location. On a 1 (or 1-2 if you're mean) they damage a Viper or destroy a Civilian ship in their area. And the Support ability feels like it gives the Rebel Basestar waaay too much board control, but that's me.
oh, and in the spirit of selfishness, a possible Politics or Treachery card (can't decide which.)
Triple Cross 1 or 2
Play when Galactica or the Rebel Basestar is about to be damaged. The other ship is damaged instead. (This interrupt may not be used if the Rebel Basestar is not on the board.)
(Cause the Rebel Cylons are betraying the Cylons by helping the humans but what if Galactica got in the way of some shots from the Basestars? Would the Rebel's double-cross become a triple cross?)
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David Turczi
Hungary
Budapest
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LL6869 wrote: Skill Card Contributions
Limiting the Rebel Cylon's contribution to 2 cards in a skill check seems odd. With them only drawing 3 cards it would require a significant investment of their time and resources to play more than 2 cards into a check anyway. With that being the case, shouldn't you at least leave the option open? I don't see a strong argument that if they want to blow their hand on a single check that they shouldn't be able to. Rebel Cylon doesn't have to discard upon revealing. He could have as many as 13 cards at the beginning of his turn. It is meant to be a symp mechanic, so 3.5v2. If the .5 player is just as effective as anyone else, and can draw from any color (even if only 1 each), and has an awsome board all to himself, I don't feel like this would be much limiting...
Quote: Condition Level Passive Abilities
The attack passive ability seems like it would be a really good ability to simply give the rebel Hybrid on the attack action. Isn't letting them bounce around the board a little too powerful? Also, automatically making attacks fail on the defensive... this just strikes me as something that's going to be exploitable that we're not seeing. And for support... I can't prove that this ability is not abusable, especially now, that you can switch mode, move the ship and then take an action... How about " The Rebel Basestar may be moved to any space area with one action, but don't take an extra action for it." (Feel free to word it more lawyerish)
Quote: Rebel Basestar Escorting Ships
I don't like this at all. It strikes me as very unthematic and more of a rules nudge. And I think it's a bad rules nudge. It seriously reduces the incentive of humans to worry about Command/flying Vipers once the Rebel Basestar is in play. It seems like it's a lot better to simply use Comms to move all the Civie ships to where the Rebel Basestar is and then park it in defensive mode. Since Raiders will have a hard time hitting it and it can shoot back/escort civies out. (The Rebel Cylons never seemed to be this helpful in the show, they just hated the other cylons and used the humans to deal with shiz for the most part.) I'll need to hear more feedback before I remove this... I'm not convinced, but willing to listen.
Quote: Missile Batteries
This seems like a case of trying too hard to make it not like Main Batteries/Pegasus CIC. I like the idea of letting someone simply make four attacks on the offensive. This lets them pepper Heavy Raiders or Basestars or regular raiders... and adds some spice to the location. On a 1 (or 1-2 if you're mean) they damage a Viper or destroy a Civilian ship in their area. And the Support ability feels like it gives the Rebel Basestar waaay too much board control, but that's me. This sounds good, I'll try.
Quote: oh, and in the spirit of selfishness, a possible Politics or Treachery card (can't decide which.)... Skill cards don't get to be module specific. So no on this.
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ABCoLD
United States
Nebraska
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TDaver wrote: LL6869 wrote: Skill Card Contributions
Limiting the Rebel Cylon's contribution to 2 cards in a skill check seems odd. With them only drawing 3 cards it would require a significant investment of their time and resources to play more than 2 cards into a check anyway. With that being the case, shouldn't you at least leave the option open? I don't see a strong argument that if they want to blow their hand on a single check that they shouldn't be able to. Rebel Cylon doesn't have to discard upon revealing. He could have as many as 13 cards at the beginning of his turn. It is meant to be a symp mechanic, so 3.5v2. If the .5 player is just as effective as anyone else, and can draw from any color (even if only 1 each), and has an awsome board all to himself, I don't feel like this would be much limiting...
He's certainly not as effective as everyone else and while he might have 13 cards at the beginning of his first turn as a Rebel Cylon... that's really unlikely unless Adam rebelled. Frankly he's going to always be more card poor than other human players, so why punish them for that? If they want to waste cards/overplay checks, that's their choice. 
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David Turczi
Hungary
Budapest
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While we wait for the board to get ready...
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ABCoLD
United States
Nebraska
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Nice.
I was going to suggest, purely from a game mechanic perspective... what about having the list of Condition Levels being a top down list, and listing the passive effect next to it? (Or at least getting the passive effect noted somewhere on the card?)
For example, right now it's:
A B C
How about:
A - This is what A does
B - This is what B does
C - This is what C does
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David Turczi
Hungary
Budapest
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I already have the plans made out, and there is something like that in it.
My girlfriend only had time for one board today, and since V20 is heating up, Colony went first. (I'm uploading that right now)
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ABCoLD
United States
Nebraska
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You make your girlfriend do your images?! For shame!
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David Turczi
Hungary
Budapest
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LL6869 wrote: You make your girlfriend do your images?! For shame!
She's prettier thus makes prettier pictures
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