tim meyer
United States
Mequon
Wisconsin
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Purchased the deluxe game a couple days ago but haven't played it yet.
Question: I thought I had read somewhere that if using the optional cards you should not use the Chinese Civil War variant, but I am unable to find this in the rules. Is this the case?
If this is the case which would you recommend using for the first few games? Chinese Variant or optional cards? Also, are the optional cards a method of "fixing" the unbalance I had heard about?
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"L'état, c'est moi."
Canada
Vancouver
BC
Roger's Reviews: check out my reviews page, right here on BGG!
Who let this guy become wargame subdomain moderator anyways?
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kadorn1007 wrote: Question: I thought I had read somewhere that if using the optional cards you should not use the Chinese Civil War variant, but I am unable to find this in the rules. Is this the case? It was a recommendation from the designer.
I like the optional cards a lot.
The unbalance goes away as your experience rises.
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tim meyer
United States
Mequon
Wisconsin
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leroy43 wrote: kadorn1007 wrote: Question: I thought I had read somewhere that if using the optional cards you should not use the Chinese Civil War variant, but I am unable to find this in the rules. Is this the case? It was a recommendation from the designer. I like the optional cards a lot. The unbalance goes away as your experience rises.
Thanks. Do you tend not to use the Chinese Variant when using the extra cards then? Would using them both push things in favor of the US?
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Shawn Garbett
United States
Nashville
Tennessee
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kadorn1007 wrote: Do you tend not to use the Chinese Variant when using the extra cards then? Would using them both push things in favor of the US?
I personally just use the cards. The story goes that using both favors the US.
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Kevin Brown
United States
Macon
Georgia
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Using both is killing one bird with two stones. The optional cards are sufficient to balance the game.
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Alex
Canada
St-Johnny-de-la-Curve
Quebec
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kadorn1007 wrote: If this is the case which would you recommend using for the first few games? Chinese Variant or optional cards? Also, are the optional cards a method of "fixing" the unbalance I had heard about?
When I played my first games, I used both Chines Civil War and the optional cards. USA easily won every games.
Unbalance aside, I found the Chinese Civil War confusing when playing my first games. The China Card is frequently referred in other cards event so not having it into play (situation that occurs when the USSR do not put the required influence to get it) makes the learning curve a little steeper as you have to improvise on those unplanned situations.
My advise would be : Don't bother with the Chinese Civil War, go with the optional cards.
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Jack Smith
United Kingdom
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afafard wrote: kadorn1007 wrote: If this is the case which would you recommend using for the first few games? Chinese Variant or optional cards? Also, are the optional cards a method of "fixing" the unbalance I had heard about?
When I played my first games, I used both Chines Civil War and the optional cards. USA easily won every games. Unbalance aside, I found the Chinese Civil War confusing when playing my first games. The China Card is frequently referred in other cards event so not having it into play (situation that occurs when the USSR do not put the required influence to get it) makes the learning curve a little steeper as you have to improvise on those unplanned situations. My advise would be : Don't bother with the Chinese Civil War, go with the optional cards.
My experience is opposite to yours. I've played about 7 games all as US and lost once (my first game) I do feel optionals or other game balancing mechanisms are moot until players have a lot more games under their belt. My opponents lost as they were making basic beginner mistakes which we all do whatever side we play. The CCW variant does look fiddly and I would include the optionals instead too.
I think the general consensus is the optionals plus 3 Influence to the US to be used in any country listed in set up but not to over control give the best balance. But I would not give much credence to results in my first 10 games or so.
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Proudly annoying Capitalists since 1959
Cuba
Santa Clara
Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned
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I'll add another suggestion...
Optional cards are fun cards and that should be reason enough to put them in.
No extra IP, no CCW variant.
If the USSR pushes it's red locomotive all over the US, then accept your loss and start over. You'll learn the game much better then mutting about untill final scoring.
I found that with 3 extra IP, europe becomes almost impossible to dominate for the USSR (that is too say, that the US doesn't need to worry that much about it.)
Without the extra 3ip, the US must be very defensive in the Early war (and the USSR must push).
Perhaps the only thing you could do, is add 1ip to Iran (2c/0).
Cheers, Haring
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Jack Smith
United Kingdom
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Haring wrote: I'll add another suggestion...:arrrh:
Optional cards are fun cards and that should be reason enough to put them in.
No extra IP, no CCW variant.
If the USSR pushes it's red locomotive all over the US, then accept your loss and start over. You'll learn the game much better then mutting about untill final scoring.
I found that with 3 extra IP, europe becomes almost impossible to dominate for the USSR (that is too say, that the US doesn't need to worry that much about it.)
Without the extra 3ip, the US must be very defensive in the Early war (and the USSR must push).
Perhaps the only thing you could do, is add 1ip to Iran (2c/0).
Cheers, Haring
I agree. I think game balance is not relevant or even desirable outside competitive play. The addiction to perfect balance can never mathematically work and it often leads to unintended consequences as you just described.
Also game balance is very highly subjective and depends on the players relative skill and knowledge. In POG for instance you have to know the game well or the CP player can lose easily. But once someone knows the game it is balanced.
Really 'game balance' means sod all a lot of the time. In fact going by my games TS is heavily balanced in favour of the US.
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