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Ken
United States
Crystal Lake
Illinois
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Darilian wrote: Is Mitt Romney kind to animals????
Where does he stand on animal safety nets?
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Jeff Jones
United States
Round Rock
Texas
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quozl wrote: But this thread isn't about voting for him or his suitability for any political office. It's about what he did in this situation and for some strange reason, people seem to be afraid to say they like what he did if they don't like him as a presidential candidate.
I'll say it. I like what he did in this case. Hell I like what he did with health care in Massachusetts when he was governor. Now if he would stand up and be a freaking man about that issue I would actually have some respect for him and a lot less fear that he will just be a plaything of the tea partiers and neo-cons should he gain the White House.
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Learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim..
United States
Cleveland Heights
Ohio
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bjlillo wrote: MWChapel wrote: He's not concerned about animals...or poor people. Seems a little redundant, don't you think?
I thumb your post because it is funny in that outrageously-shocking stand-up comedian way. I'm pretty sure you meant it that way, but stranger things have happened on the internet.
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Jon
United States
Vancouver
WA
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Chad_Ellis wrote: I think Mitt Romney is probably a very good guy. Happy Jon? 
Even I wouldn't go that far. But I think he did a good thing in this instance.
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Chad Ellis
United States
Brookline
Massachusetts
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quozl wrote: Chad_Ellis wrote: I think Mitt Romney is probably a very good guy. Happy Jon? Even I wouldn't go that far.
Why not? He sure seems like it. He's got a great family that he's clearly dedicated to, there are regular reports from people he worked with that he's an upstanding guy, he served his church and his community. What makes you think he's not?
I think the reason that people have commented on the political side is that the "Romney as a guy" side is a) a bit boring, and b) a bit boring. It's boring because like so many Mormons he seems really, really nice. The kind of guy you'd let watch your kids or that you'd be shocked to find had done something mean. It's boring because the only reason we're discussing Romney is that he's going to be the Republican nominee (yes, Koldfoot, I said it) but his general qualities as a person aren't why anyone I've heard of is opposed to him becoming President.
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Jon
United States
Vancouver
WA
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Chad_Ellis wrote: quozl wrote: Chad_Ellis wrote: I think Mitt Romney is probably a very good guy. Happy Jon? Even I wouldn't go that far. Why not?
I heard he's cruel to animals.
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Chad Ellis
United States
Brookline
Massachusetts
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There is that, although I hesitate to draw too strong a view from an incident that I didn't witness.
I think it's more likely that Romney is clueless (in some instances) than cruel. I suspect he's sincere in his belief that their dog loved riding in the roof container, even after having had the "incident".
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Jeff Brown
United States
Colorado Springs
Colorado
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What I think interesting about this thread is that people have a hard time believing that good people can differ in their opinions on the role of government.
This is one of the reasons I like watching politics in general, I don't have any real confidence that our problems will be solved politically, but I do enjoy watching human behavior interact in a political setting.
In my Psychology of Relationships class, I have my students play a game which is really just an iterated prisoner's dilemma. I like observing their behavior as it starts to change in interesting ways. We then discuss afterwards what happened.
The research shows than in a competitive environment human behavior changes in three particular ways.
1) Trust decreases
2) Perception changes (specifically we tend to see much more negative in our opponents and positive qualities in our own side)
3) Communication between groups becomes far less effective (information is withheld, deception is used far more often)
All of these behaviors are obvious in the political environment, mainly because it is an intensely competitive environment.
So I find it interesting that people either can't admit that he might be a good guy, or grudgingly admit that he might be a good guy but that he is still evil in some other way. It goes to show how perception works in a competitive environment.
edit: I myself am an independent and have been found to vote on either side partly because I find that both parties have strong blindspots because of the things I mention above.
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Jeff Brown
United States
Colorado Springs
Colorado
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TheChin! wrote: quozl wrote: But this thread isn't about voting for him or his suitability for any political office. It's about what he did in this situation and for some strange reason, people seem to be afraid to say they like what he did if they don't like him as a presidential candidate. I'm not afraid to say I don't like what he did. The sentiment is honorable, but the execution was poor, inefficient and could have made things worse. When you run a multi-million dollar company, you can better spend the money spent sending all these white-collar people with no experience of the dark-underbelly of New York into the streets, by hiring more (I know he hired some) professionals and pressuring the media and authorities to help. It's well-intentioned untrained people like Mitt who make professionals jobs harder. What if his blundering actions actually would have gotten her killed instead? It was dumb risky move, presumably made from the heart and with good intentioned passion.
I think this is way overblown. Is it really so dangerous to have a group of people out searching for a missing person even if it is in New York? In the end the girl was found.
This is actually a rather Mormonish way of dealing with problems, If there is a problem we mobilize large amounts of volunteers and get them to work on the problem. This can be seen on other types of disasters like Hurricane Katrina. The whole church is run by volunteers at the local level, with no paid ministry.
The church has many local cannery's and farms that are run by volunteers for the purpose of creating food for the poor. It may be in some ways more economically efficient to run these by people donating money and paying for workers however, There are some strong benefits to doing it this way that aren't apparent in hiring professionals to do everything. It teaches people to love and serve one another, which is what I think this country needs more than anything actually.
There is something about working side by side at a cannery making food for the poor, with a lawyer, a college, professor, and a rich business man. Sure it may be more efficient and easier to just have those people donate money, but you don't get the same benefits.
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Chad Ellis
United States
Brookline
Massachusetts
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jeff brown wrote: What I think interesting about this thread is that people have a hard time believing that good people can differ in their opinions on the role of government.
While I've certainly seen that in other threads, I'm surprised you're seeing it here. There have been posts critical of Romney's positions or his belief about the role of government but I can't find any that doubt that he actually holds his views or that since he holds them he can't be a good person.
Can you geekmail or email me that game? It could be interesting for my negotiations classes. (If email is better, it's chad.ellis at comcast.net.)
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Learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim..
United States
Cleveland Heights
Ohio
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jeff brown wrote: I think this is way overblown. Is it really so dangerous to have a group of people out searching for a missing person even if it is in New York?
I guess it really depends on how it actually transpired. If it really was wealthy white-collar suburbanites walking the streets asking prostitutes and drug dealers if they had seen a missing girl, then yes I think that is dangerous. Even disregarding possibilities of regular crimes, just a freaked out drug dealer/pimp who is being asked about a missing girl might get ugly out of a misplaced self-defense response.
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John Hathorn
United States
San Antonio
Texas
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richcharters wrote: When I saw the movie Taken (with Liam Neeson) I said: "I want a dad like that."
When I read this article I said: "I want a president like that."
I think that Mitt Romney is a genuinely good person who genuinely believes that his policies are what this country needs based on the facts he has at hand. And I genuinely disagree with him.
I think he'd be a good friend to have (not just based on this story) and I think I'd enjoy his company.
And I genuinely believe the exact same thing about Barack Obama. If anyone thinks Obama wouldn't do the exact same thing for one of his friends I would think they were delusional. I know I would do exactly that for my friends (I've already done much less for my friends).
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Jeff Brown
United States
Colorado Springs
Colorado
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Chad_Ellis wrote: jeff brown wrote: What I think interesting about this thread is that people have a hard time believing that good people can differ in their opinions on the role of government. While I've certainly seen that in other threads, I'm surprised you're seeing it here. There have been posts critical of Romney's positions or his belief about the role of government but I can't find any that doubt that he actually holds his views or that since he holds them he can't be a good person. Can you geekmail or email me that game? It could be interesting for my negotiations classes. (If email is better, it's chad.ellis at comcast.net.)
Well there have been a few comments that insinuate that he still doesn't really care about other people and that this doesn't prove anything different.
Then there are some other comments that say well this is a good hearted gesture but just goes to show how ineffective he really is(I thought was interesting given that the girl was found).
Then there has been the comments that say this is good hearted gesture, but this really reveals how short sighted and wrong headed he is and will therefore make horrible policies. (I wondered how you could get all that from this incident, but hey)
I'll scan the game in and send it to you. I'm sure you'll find it interesting. I've learned a lot from your blog on human behavior also.
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