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Hi,
In the English translation of the rules it's stated, that if you roll dice before building a wall, you loose points and reroll. Why? Is this correct, because it doesn't make sense to me. If you reroll anyway, than why loose points? Besides, people suggested (I think a reasonable) variant of rolling dice before building a wall. So clearly, rolling before doesn't break anything?
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Tomello Visello
United States
Reston
Virginia
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I see it quite simply as a way to EMPHASIZE the importance of this seemingly casual element. Doing otherwise changes the luck balance, changes the analysis level, and pretty much increments the playing time element.
Gabriel_Kuriata wrote: If you reroll anyway, ... You mean place the wall and then re-roll? If that is the social etiquette that your group accepts then it may be fine.
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Todd Redden
United States
Manchester
Connecticut
"Don't pray in my school, I won't think in your church."
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Gabriel_Kuriata wrote: Hi,
In the English translation of the rules it's stated, that if you roll dice before building a wall, you loose points and reroll. Why? Is this correct, because it doesn't make sense to me. If you reroll anyway, than why loose points? Besides, people suggested (I think a reasonable) variant of rolling dice before building a wall. So clearly, rolling before doesn't break anything?
This point has been argued many times. I think the designer thought knowing what color houses come out first before placing the wall gives an unfair advantage, and wanted a crux to force wall placement first absolutely. Its in the rules so we always play it that way, but I don't see - if you forget and roll first - why you can't just place a wall then reroll without a penalty. We always place walls first now, so it isn't an issue. It is kind of like "touch-move" in chess. No take backs! House rules you can do what you want.
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IMO, because of rerolling, rolling too early in practice has absolutely no consequences. It's just it - you place a wall and roll again. I really don't get the penalty. A simple - "remember, roll AFTER you place a wall, because it otherwise breaks game balance" - would make more sense to me.
So - it turns out that placing wall FIRST, rolling SECOND is important to game balance? One could think, that it's nothing really, that it decreases the luck factor.
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Tim Mossman
United States
Montgomery County
Maryland
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My experience is that the penalty for pre-wall placement dice rolling is a generally ignored rule. If someone inadvertantly rolls before placing the wall, you just make them re-roll.
No harm, no foul.
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The loss of a point can actually be an advantage in a game, since you get to trade more cards in later if you want to, but only if you are the person in last place or sharing last place. This tactic should not be underestimated as a strategic tool in the game.
Also, sacrificing the one point to know what color houses you get to play before placing the wall can be worth it depending on the card(s) in your hand. Sometimes the gain can be larger than that one point loss. Basically you are paying for a slight planning advantage if you choose to.
So, yes, at times I have purposefully rolled before placing the wall to force lose a point.
I don't think of the rule as a penalty so much as a subtle strategy mechanic.
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United States
Danbury
Connecticut
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ejtracer wrote: The loss of a point can actually be an advantage in a game, since you get to trade more cards in later if you want to, but only if you are the person in last place or sharing last place. This tactic should not be underestimated as a strategic tool in the game.
Also, sacrificing the one point to know what color houses you get to play before placing the wall can be worth it depending on the card(s) in your hand. Sometimes the gain can be larger than that one point loss. Basically you are paying for a slight planning advantage if you choose to.
So, yes, at times I have purposefully rolled before placing the wall to force lose a point.
I don't think of the rule as a penalty so much as a subtle strategy mechanic.
You don't get to sacrifice a point to know the color of the wall houses. You still have to re-roll, even after the point penalty.
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Apologies, I was only suggesting the secondary reason after reading the another individual's comment alluding to it, which I may have misinterpreted.
tmredden wrote: This point has been argued many times. I think the designer thought knowing what color houses come out first before placing the wall gives an unfair advantage, and wanted a crux to force wall placement first absolutely...
Such a maneuver had never occurred to me personally, and its seems there is a good reason... Its against the rules since you still have to re-roll. (I just physically checked the rules myself to confirm this.)
However, I still stand by my first reason and observation, which is well within the rules and a legal maneuver to gain additional cards.
ejtracer wrote: The loss of a point can actually be an advantage in a game, since you get to trade more cards in later if you want to, but only if you are the person in last place or sharing last place. This tactic should not be underestimated as a strategic tool in the game.
Although, you never get to know the color of the wall via the dice, since they only come in one color anyway. However, I am sure any opponent would be more than willing to let you sacrifice points to know the color of the next wall being placed. 
cannoneer wrote: You don't get to sacrifice a point to know the color of the wall. You still have to re-roll, even after the point penalty.
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