Jason A
United States
St. Paul
Minnesota
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I'm struggling a bit understanding hills. I'm sure this is a me problem, and it's all very easy, but if anyone could help me out I'd greatly appreciate it.
10.1: LOS is always reciprocal. If A can see B, B can see A.
Okay, got it. Here's where I got tripped up:
88.3.2 says "A unit may only trace a LOS into the initial Crest hex of each elevation above it."
1. Does that "each" mean "every?" So say on Map 9, could a unit in A5 see into both A7 and A8? (But not E9 because there's a intervening crest in D8?)
2. Say there's a unit in A9. The boxed text of 88.3.2 says "So Unit A on a Hill can see unit B at a lower elevation only if the LOS from unit A both: crosses a Crest Line *before* it crosses a hexside; and never again crosses a Crest Line of the same or higher elevation." I would read that to mean A9 could see into A5. But in my mind -- and again, I could be very wrong -- it would seem that A5 could not see into A9 because there's no crest in A9.
Which would then contradict 10.1, so I'm obviously messing something up. Where am I going wrong?
3. Does a unit in O10 have LOS to every hex on Map 9, save for the blind hexes created by buildings? It seems to me it would, but again, maybe I'm wrong. Or are there no blind hexes because O10 is a Level 2 Hill?
I've been playing non-elevation-heavy scenarios in an attempt to get the system dowm, but I think it's time to take off the training wheels. Thanks in advance for any help!
Jason
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Richard Pardoe
United States
San Ramon
California
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While unofficial - it might help to consider the elevations in CC as wedding cakes or stacked layers. In this conceptualization, you can see units standing at the edge of the layer (ie crest hexes) but not when they have stepped away from the ledge and are further back.
On to your specific questions.
(1) A5 (Level 0) can see the first hex of higher elevations. Therefore, it can see A7 (Level 1) and A8 (Level 2). And correct on E9 as the LOS crosses the Level 1 crest hex in D8.
(2) Tracing the LOS from A9 to A5, just take a look at the first hexside it crosses (A9-A8). As it crosses that hexside, the LOS has not crossed a crest line (it is in A8 after the hexside) so the LOS is blocked from A9 (just as it is blocked from A5 to A9)
(3) Any LOS from O10 crosses a hexside at the same elevation (O10:N10, O10:N9, and O10:O9) before it crosses the crest line - so O10 can only see the Level 2 hexes in its vicinity and the Level 2 hexes in the A10 corner.
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Brent Pollock
Canada
Saskatoon
Saskatchewan
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1. Yes.
2. No LOS A9 to A5. It does not pass the "crosses a Crest Line *before* it crosses a hexside" criterion because the hexside (A9-A8) is crossed before the Crest Line (A8-A7).
3. No, for the same reason as #2, O10 has LOS to almost nothing on Map 9. It may only draw LOS to hexes of the same level/colour because otherwise the LOS crosses a hexside before a Crest Line. C9 & N7 are the hexes that see almost everything on the map bar the blind zones.
edit - GAWDAMMIT Pardoe, I even CTRL+F5'd before responding!
edit #2 - those who attended Pardoe's wedding can attest to the fact that the wedding cake was, in fact, done to resemble this conceptualisation of Board 9. It even included different intensities of chocolate in the icing for the different levels. Apparently there was much tussling over who got the objective hex pieces...and it was a right bugger to cut the pieces out as hexes.
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Courage Under Fire
United Kingdom
Warrington
Cheshire
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Stick with it Jason. I also struggled with the hill rules but once I got it I realised how simple and intuitive and also how fantastic they are.
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Jason A
United States
St. Paul
Minnesota
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Thank you, thank you, thank you. The wedding cake analogy is incredibly helpful. I knew that it had to be easy, but I was having trouble with visualizing how it worked.
So then, just to make sure I have it, the Level 3 hills on Map 12 all have LOS* because LOS crosses crests *within* their hexes before LOS crosses their hexsides.
*The exceptions being, I think, the cliffs, the Level 3 woods obstacles, and any blind spots the Level 2 woods and buildings would create. That about right?
Jason
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Richard Pardoe
United States
San Ramon
California
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AlbertaClipper wrote: So then, just to make sure I have it, the Level 3 hills on Map 12 all have LOS* because LOS crosses crests *within* their hexes before LOS crosses their hexsides.
Umm, double-check your thoughts by checking the LOS from H4 to E3 (or G4 to E3).
Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): That LOS is blocked because the crest line is in F3.
I know what you are trying to internalize the concepts, so use hex I8 on Map 11 as the example for your statement above.
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Jason A
United States
St. Paul
Minnesota
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Yes, of course. Dumb mistake on my part.
In my haste/excitement in having something concrete to better understand hills, I didn't look as carefully as I should have. At least I feel good about the fact I saw my mistake as soon as you pointed it out -- before I looked at the answer.
Anyway, cool. As always, this was a huge help.I now feel prepared to charge up those hills.
Cheers --
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Brent Pollock
Canada
Saskatoon
Saskatchewan
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The LOS never gave me trouble, but I have problems remembering the +1 for firing downhill (-1 for uphill is already in ASL, more or less, as Height Advantage).
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Chick Lewis
United States
Claremont
California
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From the way you phrased your second series of questions, it seems that you may (as I did at first) assume that cliff hexsides create a blind hex behind them. This is NOT so. By the rules, cliffs are just very steep hills.
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Jason A
United States
St. Paul
Minnesota
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Yes, good catch. Actually, I was thinking you couldn't sight down (or up) cliffs because they aren't crests. So are you saying for LOS purposes, cliffs function the same way crests do?
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Richard Pardoe
United States
San Ramon
California
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Yes.
Long ago, in a galaxy far, far, away (aka CSW), Chad clarified
Quote: "T88.3.1 -- Clarification: Any hex at the higher end of a Cliff is a Crest Hex. Treat the Hill line running along the higher end of the Cliff as the actual Crest Line".
which forces a possible line of sight to cross the (Cliff) Crest Line before exiting the hex for LOS purposes.
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Gregory Wong
United States
San Jose
California
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Once you have the LOS rules figured out, you'll want to try scenario 106: The Lost Battalion and its accompanying board 29.
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