B Mendez
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basm22 wrote:
A board and only 2 decks: the first deck, location, next location is revealed and set in place; from the second deck, first 3 cards are selected and set in their respective location (the first one in slot I, the second in slot II and the third in slot III). In each round you get 3 action/points to invest. The value of the slots is slot I, 1 action/point; slot II, 2 action/points; slot III, 3 action points. You invest your points in the cards (you don't have to invest the three points and unused action/points are lost at the end of your turn). If you get the card in slot III, you are done. If not you could get either I and II, or just one of them, but you can't afford II and III. When the round is over, the cards not used move down, and a new card is set in the empty slots. Yes, the cards get more expensive in the following round. This system would provide a simple mechanism for the exchange/conversion of points. You have to add/subtract the attribute in the top right corner of the card (represented by a companion) and acquire the values in the bottom of the card. All of them.

By the way, there is an item here that was removed for the previous image: the healing leaves of the tree of life. They would heal wounds resulting from a battle, like the one against Apollyon in the Valley of Humiliation.


Now that I think about it I think I could progress both concepts, one after the other. If I structure my process, I could finish a couple of different sets with less effort by capitalizing on the common master elements. A lot of work though! But doable and satisfying.
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Beaker73 wrote:
Perhaps it's silly to discuss the theology of a board game, but this game kind of brings up the "works vs grace" idea. It seems that earning victory points to enter the Celestial City is not quite sound Christian theology. After looking at your post a little more closely, though, that does not seem to be the tact you are taking. It's more along the lines of holding onto the faith when presented with temptations. In so doing, it seems that you may be doing a nice job of balancing Christian theology with game play. You show that while living in Grace is the way to attain salvation, believers must be vigilant to walk in the ways of God.

Keep up your efforts. You've taken up a big challenge and seem to be off to a good start.

I have a 1-year-old, a 5-year-old, and a 7-year-old. I would be happy to try out your game with my oldest when you feel that it is ready for testing.


Not silly at all! Even Christian traditions like my own that adhere to a belief that one is saved by faith and not works, also tend to have a heritage of emphasizing "works" as an important outworking/result of faith. Or put differently, saving faith results in a Christian who does good deeds.

I also volunteer for playtesting!!!!!!
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foxfan wrote:
Beaker73 wrote:
Perhaps it's silly to discuss the theology of a board game, but this game kind of brings up the "works vs grace" idea. It seems that earning victory points to enter the Celestial City is not quite sound Christian theology. After looking at your post a little more closely, though, that does not seem to be the tact you are taking. It's more along the lines of holding onto the faith when presented with temptations. In so doing, it seems that you may be doing a nice job of balancing Christian theology with game play. You show that while living in Grace is the way to attain salvation, believers must be vigilant to walk in the ways of God.

Keep up your efforts. You've taken up a big challenge and seem to be off to a good start.

I have a 1-year-old, a 5-year-old, and a 7-year-old. I would be happy to try out your game with my oldest when you feel that it is ready for testing.


Not silly at all! Even Christian traditions like my own that adhere to a belief that one is saved by faith and not works, also tend to have a heritage of emphasizing "works" as an important outworking/result of faith. Or put differently, saving faith results in a Christian who does good deeds.

I also volunteer for playtesting!!!!!!


I think the book is an excellent allegory of the process of redemption, faith and practice in the life of the Christian, and, through the pilgrim's experience, succeeds in presenting God in its true nature. In that sense it is a theological "thesis". That has to transpire in the game; especially the concept of grace.

I must say that I have taken the project seriously in trying to respect the book's theological position while creating an enjoyable game experience.

I appreciate both of your posts and will be looking forward to hearing your comments after you play it. Thanks for your support.
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I found a card supplier that prints custom cards and doesn't limit the amount of cards. Now I won't have to limit the amount of cards (Especially with the game option with the three decks). I can even create player reference cards...

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basm22 wrote:
I found a card supplier that prints custom cards and doesn't limit the amount of cards. Now I won't have to limit the amount of cards (Especially with the game option with the three decks). I can even create player reference cards...



Just make sure you don't spend a lot of money making the game until it's well-tested! If you're likely to make changes, you'll want to stick to a cheap, bare-bones prototype.

Who's the supplier, incidentally?
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Oh no! I would not send it out until it's final. Thanks. That's why I am working in B&W, so I can run the prototype in my home laser printer.

I was keeping my three decks at 17 cards each so I could get by with just a regular deck...but I don't have to anymore.

The supplier is Printer's Studio at http://www.printerstudio.com
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A look at location cards:



For the "Valley of Humiliation" Card, you need A value of 4 "Life" to access the location, 4 "Strength" to succeed, and if you do, you earn the "key" object, and a +1 "Faith"



For the "Wicket Gate" Card, you need A value of 4 "Life" to access the location, 4 "Faith" to succeed, and if you do, a +1 "Strength". But, if you do not possess a minimum of "x" strength when you reach this location, you are wounded, thus not only not getting the "+1 Sthrength, but also getting "-1 Strength".
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I may include a card like this one to accentuate the concept of grace. Have to test it. It might not work. It could be an option when playing with small children: one per player.



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A preliminary look at companions (for the game options that allows you to acquire companions with action points): It provides a good alternative for attributes exchange.



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Latest version of the board, with locations and objects. Again, if more than one player, I am working on individual player boards.

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basm22 wrote:
A preliminary look at companions (for the game options that allows you to acquire companions with action points): It provides a good alternative for attributes exchange.


Forgot to mention that I am working for a total of 18 companion cards.
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Disclaimer: I haven't tested any of this. Since I am a visual person, I want to "see" the options, and will then complete my excel "attribute, location, object, life points" worksheet to see how it all adds up.

After working with the concepts some more, I have started calling the previously referred to as "Grace/Life" points, just "Life". I figure that once those points are extinguished, the pilgrim "dies" but also, a pilgrim could be alive even if one or two of his attributes are zero, thus giving the pilgrim still hope to make it to Celestial City (accentuating the concept of "Grace" in the game)
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18 Location cards:





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Latest version of the board:

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Have you created the artwork on this? It has a wonderful Renaissance look to it. It's really high quality work.
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Characters starting strength, faith, wisdom:

Strong 4, 2, 3
Faithful 3, 4, 2
Wise 2, 3, 4
Balanced 3, 3, 3
Very Faithful 2, 6, 1
Very Strong 6, 1, 2
Very Wise 1, 2, 6

I have never done a character before, but tried balancing both, attributes per character, and attributes themselves.
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Beaker73 wrote:
Have you created the artwork on this? It has a wonderful Renaissance look to it. It's really high quality work.


Thanks! I started with copyright free illustrations that were created for the book over a century ago (hence the style). I edited them with Photoshop and layed it up in Indesign and illustrator.

The map I designed myself by editing, scaling and arranging existing location drawings in Photoshop to create current map layout. I wanted to create a logical progression for the purposes of my game.

All icons and text were designed by me, including the fire/water concept (that I created to represent the concept of grace described in the book. The pilgrim concept on City of destruction was also done by me.

The look was necessary to complement the style of the illustrations.

After play test is done, I will probably add a parchment paper ivory/yellowish background and enhance the look by improving in all the elements of the design.
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basm22 wrote:
After play test is done, I will probably add a parchment paper ivory/yellowish background and enhance the look by improving in all the elements of the design.


Sounds like a good plan. While I do love the illustrations, I can't imagine the pure black and white look being too attractive in a game. Perhaps adding a little color to the illustrations would help, too. You might end up with a look kind of like Troyes.
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The location cards look great. Great way to leverage the public domain. It is a shame tha so few works eter it anymore. Dowb with Disney! LOL Sorry off topic rant.

There are a few other board games with a Pilgrim Progress theme in the christian arena. I thought Cactus did one too. I think it used a a board with some event cards. What is the purpose of the location cards and the board? If you listed the link to rules, I am sorry for the goofy question. Allot of the games in the christian arena except for taboo, redemption and the one where you ask moral dilima's(sorry I can't remember the name) tend to have a linear feel to them. You may be better off with just the cards and you shuffle and then go through the cards. You culd also maybe just have squares like in drakon and the players build the route. That may make it different enough to say, buy me. It may make the game more playable. IMHO many of the games at the christian book store just are not fun. In this market you make a fun game, with a decent christian theme. You may do well. It is a strong niche. Just some suggestions. Love the look though, and I agree make somethign pop. If you go black and white with the mat or board, make sure some components have some color. A little clor makes a powerfl satement. Gold, Purple whee the old colors for theology when you graduated with a Dr of Theology. They represent royalty and divinity. They may be good colors.
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Just came across this thread. I love that you're doing this. My family & myself are Christians and avid boardgamers, & we'd be more than happy to provide any play-testing help we can. I have 3 kids, 12, 9, & 7.

Additionally, I have an academic theology background, if that could be of any help as you continue to work through the concepts of the game.
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Beaker73 wrote:
[q="basm22"] Perhaps adding a little color to the illustrations would help, too.


I am thinking about PnP printing and (in my case) people that use monochrome laser printers at home. So I am making a b/w friendly version. On my own, since I work with large format color printers, I explored the posibility of colorizing a layer under the black illustration strokes and it worked, so I think with some work and the use of some filters and photoshop options, the result would be fine. I posted a little sample below (now again, this was a very quick test with low resolution and no hues adjustments):

 




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Beaker73 wrote:
[q="basm22"] You might end up with a look kind of like Troyes.


I just took a look at that game and, you are right. With the black outline layer on top of the colorized layer, it could look just like that...and it matches the period style of the illustrations as well.
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superman829 wrote:
Just came across this thread. I love that you're doing this. My family & myself are Christians and avid boardgamers, & we'd be more than happy to provide any play-testing help we can. I have 3 kids, 12, 9, & 7.

Additionally, I have an academic theology background, if that could be of any help as you continue to work through the concepts of the game.


Thanks! Yes, I guess I'll get to that point at some point. The preliminary board is ready, I have a draft of the location cards and most character cards, I also have a preliminary idea of the attributes for characters. I guess some more work and I should have something playable.
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wer2chosen wrote:
Allot of the games in the christian arena except for taboo, redemption and the one where you ask moral dilima's(sorry I can't remember the name) tend to have a linear feel to them. You may be better off with just the cards and you shuffle and then go through the cards. You culd also maybe just have squares like in drakon and the players build the route.


Maybe your should look over the posts of the previous page where we discussed the locations and some comments similar to yours.

Being that the story moves in a linear way, there's a progression towards the destination. Some of the objects and experiences are required for others, so it limits non-linear movement. That said, everything is possible.

The map exixts to provide a visual refence to the game experience. It is not essential...as a matter of fact, the project started with a simple idea to create a game for my 9-year old... and has progressed from there. As it stands the game play can happen in many different ways.

This is a previous post I made

basm22 wrote:
Maybe I'll go ahead and develop both systems and make a double-sided board for two levels of play. Or three: making an alternate location deck including the info in the board and it can turn portable, playable with just cards. (Also have a document with this option).


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Sorry, I got pulled into the middle of the thread and use stolen moments. LOTR and Pilgrim's Promise are both linear in the story, but LOTR have had linear and successful non-linear games based on them. You as the designer have the say. In Pilgrom's Promise the key is in the "end game" LOL
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