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19 Posts

Descent: Journeys in the Dark» Forums » Variants

Subject: Steelhorns variant rss

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Asdrubael Vect
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I think that it would be better for Steelhorns to have this ability instead of his actual bullsh*t;Steelhorns can make one Melee attack with his horns when he declares a Run action. He must roll 1 red and 1 green die,move in a straight line and end his movement after making the attack.This attack has also pierce 2*.

ps.not to mention that he can add his melee trait(like Onefist).
ps2.IMO with this variant the heros flavor is more goatee and it doesn't become overpowered(and thus his total conquest value doesn't rise).
*in conclusion this attribute gives Steelhorns a real ability for the begining(and mid game)and it's much more thematic and realistic(he is a frenzied goat with no brains to stop his charge at will-only an unlucky enemy can stop him paying the deadly price).
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Asdrubael1985 wrote:
I think that it would be better for Steelhorns to have this ability instead of his actual bullsh*t;Steelhorns can make one Melee attack with his horns when he declares a Run action. He must roll 1 red and 1 green die,move in a straight line and end his movement after making the attack.This attack has also pierce 2*.

ps.not to mention that he can add his melee trait(like Onefist).
ps2.IMO with this variant the heros flavor is more goatee and it doesn't become overpowered(and thus his total conquest value doesn't rise).
*in conclusion this attribute gives Steelhorns a real ability for the begining(and mid game)and it's much more thematic and realistic(he is a frenzied goat with no brains to stop his charge at will-only an unlucky enemy can stop him paying the deadly price).


By your comments, you seem to be misunderstanding his original ability?

Yours is basically the same, but weaker.
Normally he will attack with an Axe at minimum. And RGbbb will usually roll around 2 surges, which means the same or better than Pierce 2 because of your proposal's ability to convert surges. All you have done is swap Pierce 2 for an inability to use surges. Frankly, you've made it weaker, not stronger, and that's with Shop kit. The best use of his ability is with a Reach weapon, giving him a wider range of target spaces at the end of his straight line movement.
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Asdrubael Vect
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corbon wrote:
Asdrubael1985 wrote:
I think that it would be better for Steelhorns to have this ability instead of his actual bullsh*t;Steelhorns can make one Melee attack with his horns when he declares a Run action. He must roll 1 red and 1 green die,move in a straight line and end his movement after making the attack.This attack has also pierce 2*.

ps.not to mention that he can add his melee trait(like Onefist).
ps2.IMO with this variant the heros flavor is more goatee and it doesn't become overpowered(and thus his total conquest value doesn't rise).
*in conclusion this attribute gives Steelhorns a real ability for the begining(and mid game)and it's much more thematic and realistic(he is a frenzied goat with no brains to stop his charge at will-only an unlucky enemy can stop him paying the deadly price).


By your comments, you seem to be misunderstanding his original ability?

Yours is basically the same, but weaker.
Normally he will attack with an Axe at minimum. And RGbbb will usually roll around 2 surges, which means the same or better than Pierce 2 because of your proposal's ability to convert surges. All you have done is swap Pierce 2 for an inability to use surges. Frankly, you've made it weaker, not stronger, and that's with Shop kit. The best use of his ability is with a Reach weapon, giving him a wider range of target spaces at the end of his straight line movement.

I've tried him with an axe today..Imo it was not usefull to do his ability because of the following reason;i had leadership so there was no reason to declare a str8 run to trigger my ability and end my turn.If that variant makes him weaker(the logic is clear)all the better!count him as a 2 conquest value instead of 3 or put where pierce 2,pierce 3..!
ps.anyway i think he is an avrg hero
ps2.don't worry about me friend,i've already understood his ability,but i didn't like it at all..i prefer to have a range of choices rather than stick with a nearly useless ability.
ps3.i assume you already know that the whole mechanic of the game relies heavily on a)the number of attacks you take each turn and b)the exhaustion of fatigue to move extra squares or to add extra combat dice,so battle and advance orders are nearly always better than his ability(access to more maneuverability).
ps4.thanx for the reply.
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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I don't see how yours changes anything in the points you brought up though? Your suffers exactly the same limitations as the original in scope, but additionally adds more limitations to make the attack itself weaker (most of the time) - he can't use a better weapon (including one with Reach) and he has no surge conversion for the attack.

Did you state your original 'change' correctly?

Regarding Conquest Value, the criteria for that is 'difficulty to kill' with only one hero stepping outside a fairly strict W/Ar/CV structure (Laurel, who as an 8/1 should be 2CT). There is absolutely no way Steelhorns should be 2CV. Hero 'quality' seems to count only for tipping the balance on the 'X-and-a-half' CT points - 'good' heroes round up, and weaker (relatively) heroes round down.
16/1 is a 3.5 CT slot. Every single hero with 16/1 is eiter 3CT or 4CT and which number mostly depends on the hero 'quality' (though Kirga bucks that trend).

However, largely your complaint seems to come down to "my hero got a skill that didn't sync with his special ability, waaah".
Frankly, Steelhorns has an iok ability that is very powerful in a few circumstances - especially with thought and/or supporting other capabilities and moderately weak the resst of the time.
Much like many abilities that are not top tier.

 
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Asdrubael Vect
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corbon wrote:
I don't see how yours changes anything in the points you brought up though? Your suffers exactly the same limitations as the original in scope, but additionally adds more limitations to make the attack itself weaker (most of the time) - he can't use a better weapon (including one with Reach) and he has no surge conversion for the attack.

Did you state your original 'change' correctly?

Regarding Conquest Value, the criteria for that is 'difficulty to kill' with only one hero stepping outside a fairly strict W/Ar/CV structure (Laurel, who as an 8/1 should be 2CT). There is absolutely no way Steelhorns should be 2CV. Hero 'quality' seems to count only for tipping the balance on the 'X-and-a-half' CT points - 'good' heroes round up, and weaker (relatively) heroes round down.
16/1 is a 3.5 CT slot. Every single hero with 16/1 is eiter 3CT or 4CT and which number mostly depends on the hero 'quality' (though Kirga bucks that trend).

However, largely your complaint seems to come down to "my hero got a skill that didn't sync with his special ability, waaah".
Frankly, Steelhorns has an iok ability that is very powerful in a few circumstances - especially with thought and/or supporting other capabilities and moderately weak the resst of the time.
Much like many abilities that are not top tier.

Anyway i don't agree,but ok..his ability sucks big time imo.
ps.i'm not complaining,i put a variant of Steelhorns.not a big deal..
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Asdrubael1985 wrote:
corbon wrote:
I don't see how yours changes anything in the points you brought up though? Your suffers exactly the same limitations as the original in scope, but additionally adds more limitations to make the attack itself weaker (most of the time) - he can't use a better weapon (including one with Reach) and he has no surge conversion for the attack.

Did you state your original 'change' correctly?
Anyway i don't agree,but ok..his ability sucks big time imo.
ps.i'm not complaining,i put a variant of Steelhorns.not a big deal..


Would you at least explain how yours differs from the original?
 
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Asdrubael Vect
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corbon wrote:
Asdrubael1985 wrote:
corbon wrote:
I don't see how yours changes anything in the points you brought up though? Your suffers exactly the same limitations as the original in scope, but additionally adds more limitations to make the attack itself weaker (most of the time) - he can't use a better weapon (including one with Reach) and he has no surge conversion for the attack.

Did you state your original 'change' correctly?
Anyway i don't agree,but ok..his ability sucks big time imo.
ps.i'm not complaining,i put a variant of Steelhorns.not a big deal..


Would you at least explain how yours differs from the original?

Hmmm ok(even if english is not my 1st language)eg.attack with axe equiped:1red1gr3black power dice an avrg 5dmg plus the dmg from the 3 power dice BUT with the 1/6 chance of blanking each.correct?7-8 dmg avrg from the axe.attack with horns from my variant:1red1gr3black pierce 2 or 3 hmm ok it's nearly the same because of the odds from the dice(5/6 it is a dmg for the axe 3/6 it is a power enchantment-dmg for the horns,but with the addition of pierce finally axe=horns).ok for thematic purposes only then..but no weapon improvement.....hmmmmm geez Steelhorns u suck lol!
ps.i'm playing the vanilla right now and didn't see any weapon with reach..it would be good though..the exp are near
 
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Asdrubael Vect
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Additionaly i don't like his ability because he can be caught in a trap(crushing block)and my plan for 1 attack in the end cancels(str8 only) ..i prefer advance and battle(and in my situation with the leadership skill his ability is 90%useless).
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Asdrubael1985 wrote:
Quote:

Would you at least explain how yours differs from the original?

Hmmm ok(even if english is not my 1st language)eg.attack with axe equiped:1red1gr3black power dice an avrg 5dmg plus the dmg from the 3 power dice BUT with the 1/6 chance of blanking each.correct?7-8 dmg avrg from the axe.attack with horns from my variant:1red1gr3black pierce 2 or 3 hmm ok it's nearly the same because of the odds from the dice(5/6 it is a dmg for the axe 3/6 it is a power enchantment-dmg for the horns,but with the addition of pierce finally axe=horns).ok for thematic purposes only then..but no weapon improvement.....hmmmmm geez Steelhorns u suck lol!


So... you basically agree your proposal makes his ability worse then, and doesn't even try to address the stuff you complained about?

An example of a Special ability that might address your stated concerns could be:
When Steelhorns ends his turn and has moved only in one direction during his turn, he may immediately make one melee attack using his Horns, rolling one Red and one Green die. He must have moved at least one space during his turn to use this ability.
This does, deliberately, weaken his attack, but makes the ability much, much more versatile. It is similar to One-Fist's attack, but only usable at the end of his turn and he is limited to one direction of movement the entire turn. I think that is a little powerful myself (for example with 1 fatigue and a battle action he can do three attacks) and would change his CT value to 4 - reflecting a 'round up' rather than a round down, as his ability is now significantly more powerful.
 
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  • Last edited Mon Feb 6, 2012 2:45 am (Total Number of Edits: 3)
  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 2:44 am
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Asdrubael Vect
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corbon wrote:
Asdrubael1985 wrote:
Quote:

Would you at least explain how yours differs from the original?

Hmmm ok(even if english is not my 1st language)eg.attack with axe equiped:1red1gr3black power dice an avrg 5dmg plus the dmg from the 3 power dice BUT with the 1/6 chance of blanking each.correct?7-8 dmg avrg from the axe.attack with horns from my variant:1red1gr3black pierce 2 or 3 hmm ok it's nearly the same because of the odds from the dice(5/6 it is a dmg for the axe 3/6 it is a power enchantment-dmg for the horns,but with the addition of pierce finally axe=horns).ok for thematic purposes only then..but no weapon improvement.....hmmmmm geez Steelhorns u suck lol!


So... you basically agree your proposal makes his ability worse then, and doesn't even try to address the stuff you complained about?

An example of a Special ability that might address your stated concerns could be:
When Steelhorns ends his turn and has moved only in one direction during his turn, he may immediately make one melee attack using his Horns, rolling one Red and one Green die. He must have moved at least one space during his turn to use this ability.
This does, deliberately, weaken his attack, but makes the ability much, much more versatile. It is similar to One-Fist's attack, but only usable at the end of his turn and he is limited to one direction of movement the entire turn. I think that is a little powerful myself (for example with 1 fatigue and a battle action he can do three attacks) and would change his CT value to 4 - reflecting a 'round up' rather than a round down, as his ability is now significantly more powerful.

not bad..anyway thanks for your time
ps.when i posted this i had 9 hours of play time so i was and i'm very very exhausted..thanx also for making me put my mind at work again......
gn
 
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Asdrubael Vect
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Corbon you are one of the most rude posters around here imo..Plz do me a favor and don't post anything in my threads again in the future.A person who does not say a 'goodnight'(gn) or a good word just to show some respect to someone who spent his/her time posting something here(i'm not talking about thumbs of course)is NOT considered a respectfull player at all.Boardgamegeek is a place for discussions and confirmations,but to hell with this if you are not able to be polite to the other players..We know that you have some serious opinions and κnowledge,but you always have the 'teacher' style*yes i'm saying it again here* and are offensive...

ps.good luck with your attitude,but here is not accepted..not anymore...
ps2.i'm posting here not just because i'm not able to find any answers in my questions(thank god i can read and FFG answers frequently),but for the joy of being a premium member of a large community of serious boardgame players-fans discussing each other anything.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Just so you know, Corbon posts a lot on FFG as well (or at least used to). Also, he's one of the more knowledgeable and responsive posters on Descent (1st Ed) rules. I for one have a lot of respect in his view.

I'm not sure what constitutes as "rude" in your opinion, but I haven't seen anything rude from Corbon's posts. If anything, there has been a decidedly lack of emotion in his posts, very spartan in just laying out facts as he sees them. Because he didn't sign a thanks/gn on a post doesn't make it rude. I don't think I've ever done so on any of my posts, and I really hope no one thinks I'm rude.

Take a deep breath, relax, and you'll see he's really trying to help and give constructive criticism to your idea.

-shnar

P.S. Notice that I didn't say "goodnight"?

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  • Last edited Mon Feb 6, 2012 4:48 pm (Total Number of Edits: 2)
  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 4:38 pm
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Jan Tuijp
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Some mothers do 'ave 'em.

 
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Asdrubael Vect
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shnar wrote:
Just so you know, Corbon posts a lot on FFG as well (or at least used to). Also, he's one of the more knowledgeable and responsive posters on Descent (1st Ed) rules. I for one have a lot of respect in his view.

I'm not sure what constitutes as "rude" in your opinion, but I haven't seen anything rude from Corbon's posts. If anything, there has been a decidedly lack of emotion in his posts, very spartan in just laying out facts as he sees them. Because he didn't sign a thanks/gn on a post doesn't make it rude. I don't think I've ever done so on any of my posts, and I really hope no one thinks I'm rude.

Take a deep breath, relax, and you'll see he's really trying to help and give constructive criticism to your idea.

-shnar

P.S. Notice that I didn't say "goodnight"?


I know everything you just said..so what?I'm relaxed mate...Common sense is not supported here..ok no prob,but you cannot change my opinion for his attitude.Knowledge alone doesn't make anyone respectfull from my point of view.Thanx.
 
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  • Last edited Mon Feb 6, 2012 7:39 pm (Total Number of Edits: 1)
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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So what? So he's not being rude, that's what. In fact your comment was rather rude...

-shnar
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Electris Moon


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Interestingly enough he's not the first person to consider some of Corbon's replys to be rude. The knowledge Corbon has is respectable. His manner in conveying said knowledge could use some work.
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Jan Tuijp
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Electris wrote:
Interestingly enough he's not the first person to consider some of Corbon's replys to be rude. The knowledge Corbon has is respectable. His manner in conveying said knowledge could use some work.


Corbon has a matter-of-fact style of writing. Some might consider that rude. From a geeks point of view I absolutely love his prompt and extremely accurate answers. He's an expert on the subject and he doesn't see the need to hide it. Nor do I.

Also interestingly: in another thread Mr. Vect was antagonizing about everyone and Corbon of all people was pleading for clemency.

 
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  • Last edited Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:45 pm (Total Number of Edits: 2)
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Electris Moon


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Jan Tuijp wrote:
Electris wrote:
Interestingly enough he's not the first person to consider some of Corbon's replys to be rude. The knowledge Corbon has is respectable. His manner in conveying said knowledge could use some work.


Corbon has a matter-of-fact style of writing. Some might consider that rude. From a geeks point of view I absolutely love his prompt and extremely accurate answers. He's an expert on the subject and he doesn't see the need to hide it. Nor do I.

Also interestingly: in another thread Mr. Vect was antagonizing about everyone and Corbon of all people was pleading for clemency.



I like his matter of fact style of writing. Where someone might think that is considered to be rude is beyond me. His responses are highly logical and easy to follow.

Occasionally he chooses to respond in such a manner that the OP feels slighted. For example:

"Would you at least explain how yours differs from the original?"
This implies that the OP hasn't explained anything at all.

"So... you basically agree your proposal makes his ability worse then, and doesn't even try to address the stuff you complained about?"

This sentence isn't even necessary and is probably why the OP thought he was rude.

This forum is supposed to encourage discussion, yes? If the goal is to come across as all knowledgeable and you'll get your answer in a passive aggressive manner, then by all means Bravo.
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Jan Tuijp
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Electris wrote:
Occasionally he chooses to respond in such a manner that the OP feels slighted.


This OP always feels slighted. Personally, I admire Corbons patience.

 
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