Scott Russell
United States
Clarkston
Michigan
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Three of us sat down to try this one after a couple turn start a few weeks ago.
So we're far from experts.
Does this happen often?
The Protestant player had 5 points at then end of Turn 3. In turn 4 he jumped to 40 or 41 spaces. The Papacy drew three 1's that turn and only used one home card for a debate.
After the Schmaldic League was formed because it hadn't happened, we counted and the Protestant had 26 points to end the game.
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It happens, but not generally as a surprise.
When you're reading early turn scores, it's a good practice to add 12 to the Prot score and 5 to the English score. That's where they'll be fairly soon.
Surprise victories like that happen much more infrequently with experienced players.
The Pope probably should have reached out to the Hapsburgs for some help there.
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Scott Russell
United States
Clarkston
Michigan
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thanks, that's what we were figuring. Although as the Hapsburg and Papacy player, I have to say we were working together harmoniously, if not effectively.
 I had the troops stationed throughout Germany, but the Papacy just didn't counter reform enough.
The tip to just mentally add 12 and 5 is a good one that I'll share with my mitspieler.
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Oh, if you were playing Hapsburg/Pope as one player, you were pretty hosed. Normally the Pope can borrow a card from the Haps in a dire situation like that, but not when you're in control of both. The best thing you could have done there is broker a three-way deal where somebody else gives the Pope a card, being paid back out of the Hapsburg hand.
(derp, now that I re-read your initial post, you specifically said "three of us". That leaves France/Ottomans as your only likely pawn in that shell game.)
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Robert Schwieger
United States
Eugene
Oregon
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I'm not familiar with the three player game, but 40 or 41 Protestant spaces sound pretty high for turn 4, unless the Pope is completely ignoring the religious game. Even with all the early Protestant events, they shouldn't be able to make too much headway outside of Germany.
What else was the Pope doing? It sounds like he only had three cards plus home cards, so he hadn't picked up a second key? At least in a six-player game, sometimes the other players will chip in to prevent the Protestant win by playing pro-pope event cards.
The Protestants will eventually hit a wall, with all their translations completed, Luther dead, and the Jesuits in play, it becomes a completely different game. In my experience, more than most of the other powers, Protestants really have to push for the early win. If you are aware of that, and mentally add in the 12 extra VP, you shouldn't be on bad footing to counter it.
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Scott Russell
United States
Clarkston
Michigan
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It seemed like the Protestant player got all the right cards in turn 4.
He had used Here I stand to grab the printing press (the one that give +1 to all reformation rolls for the turn) at the end of T3 and held it. At the beginning of turn 4, I think he had ~10 spaces. By the end of T4, he had all of Germany, most of Switzerland, a couple in France and six or seven in England. They had finished the German bible and maybe the English (New Testament for sure).
In Turn 4, the Protestant actions were all reformations, I think as well as most of the British ones.
As Pope, I hadn't spent much on CounterReformation or debate in the first three turns. I think two debates and two counter actions. But the Protestants "only" had ten spaces, so I'd planned to hit it hard in T4 (then got no cards) or T5 (not knowing that there wasn't going to be one. )
I had taken the Venice key in Italy and nearly took Genoa on T4 and had amassed a fair amount of troops. France had moved some troops in and we were still at war, but mostly fought through the Venetian proxies.
The whole card draw thing was one I hadn't considered that would be easier with more players. I'll keep that in mind, too.
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Steven
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
No women, no kids.
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There are few important lessons I would take from your game experience and after playing a handful of games myself as the Pope:
1. Keep hitting the Protestant religiously, even when they may look like they are down. Even though they may be under 12 spaces, they are slowly winding up the New Testaments or Bibles and the reformers will breach your Catholic “line”. Try to use debates, Germany in Turn 1 (against any weaker committed debaters) and England in Turn 2 (against lonely Tyndale). The more you can make them battle for those electorates the better off you are. Also remember that any committed debaters cannot use their bonuses, especially those that give extra CP to translations. Even a debate which you do not win, but goes two rounds is good. Less bonuses the Protestants can use.
2. Bribe the Hapsburg to station troops or allow you to have some troops in Germany. If you can keep Nuremburg Catholic or keep the Protestants contained. If they never can convert an electorate the first time, those troops will not be there to help keep the space protestant.
EDIT: Also fortresses constructed via card play do not come under Protestant control after SL league is played as an event. The Hapsburg would love a friendly path through Germany: fortifying Nuremburg serves both your interests.
3. Excommunicate, excommunicate, excommunicate. You should be using Papal Bull as much as possible. It is debatable whether or not you want to excommunicate Luther on Turn 1, but if you can get “rid” of him (T1 or T2), then the Protestant cannot play any cards that require an uncommitted Luther. Same with any other Reformer later in the game. Also if anyone goes to war with you or allies the Ottomans make them pay.
4. A military is good, but not the end all be all. Keep enough troops around to deter your enemies from picking you off, but you cannot make any grand offensives unless you get the Charles Bourbon card. Why not get those bonus VPs from burning debaters?
5. If you end up at war with any power, remind them that the more CPs you spend on the military, the less you have to fight the religious war.
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