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Subject: Quick Queries rss

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Richard Thomas
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A couple of rules queries:

1) If Norowas' Bonds of Loyalty unit is destroyed by paralyze can Norowas get a new unit with the command token? The skill says the unit cannot be disbanded but nothing about what happens to the command token if you are forced to remove the unit from the game.

2) Can Concentration increase the value of elemental blocks? The card specifies any type of Attack but not the equivalent for blocks.

Very will written rules by-and-large, would normally have had so many more unresolved cases by now...
 
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Matt McCourty
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Yes - if that unit dies you just have a standard spare command token to use.

No - standard blocks.

Those are my beliefs anyway.
 
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Phil Pettifer
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I believe it can add to any type of block. I think it's just worded that way to make it clear it works with siege and ranged attacks as well as any type of elemental attack.
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Richard Thomas
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Silentz wrote:
Yes - if that unit dies you just have a standard spare command token to use.


So the command slot loses its advantages but remains available? In absence of a broad consensus or an official ruling I certainly find that reasonable, the -5 makes it a very cheap way to absorb a paralyze attack.

However it feels thematically incorrect in this case to be able to have an extra unit when that unit was destroyed. Its called "Bonds of Loyalty" implying that the unit is some long time close ally (who will not impede your ability to command) and therefore cannot easily be replaced.

Does that make sense?
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Richard Thomas
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PhilP wrote:
I believe it can add to any type of block. I think it's just worded that way to make it clear it works with siege and ranged attacks as well as any type of elemental attack.


I agree. In support of this I note the following rules paragraph:

Rulebook pg.7 wrote:
Any non-Attack/Block effect from a red card, or a Unit ability that costs red mana to activate has no effect on enemies with Fire resistance.


It seems unlikely that this rule was intended to stop Fire Shield providing a Fire Block effect.
 
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Jason Reid
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Membury wrote:
Silentz wrote:
Yes - if that unit dies you just have a standard spare command token to use.


So the command slot loses its advantages but remains available? In absence of a broad consensus or an official ruling I certainly find that reasonable, the -5 makes it a very cheap way to absorb a paralyze attack.


I disagree with Silentz. A simple reading of the text of the skill, without projecting what anybody thinks Bonds of Loyalty "should" do, seems conclusive.

"It costs 5 less Influence (minimum 0) to recruit a Unit under this command token."

Why would anybody think that expires if the unit dies?
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Jason Reid
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To go back to your original question:

Membury wrote:
The skill says the unit cannot be disbanded but nothing about what happens to the command token if you are forced to remove the unit from the game.


Precisely. So don't do anything to it. The skill says to treat it as a command token, and you don't do anything to your other command tokens when the corresponding units are removed from the game.
 
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Richard Thomas
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jasonwocky wrote:
To go back to your original question:

Membury wrote:
The skill says the unit cannot be disbanded but nothing about what happens to the command token if you are forced to remove the unit from the game.


Precisely. So don't do anything to it. The skill says to treat it as a command token, and you don't do anything to your other command tokens when the corresponding units are removed from the game.


While I respect the rules as written and have played by them my feeling is that this is subtle enough that clarification may not have been deliberately omitted. That is to say that the intention was that you should choose a unit for this slot, you get the discount once and you only get the one unit that will ever have this advantage but that paralyze can subvert that was not noticed. None of which is to say that it wasn't intended exactly that way...

I do have minor concerns about the strength of Bonds of Loyalty and it did feel balanced by the fact that you got it early and put a weak unit in there or late and didn't get much use out of it. The interaction with paralyze definitely changes that. Still, not played enough yet to really know so I'm not that invested in the paralyze thing.
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Richard Young
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Membury wrote:
jasonwocky wrote:
To go back to your original question:

Membury wrote:
The skill says the unit cannot be disbanded but nothing about what happens to the command token if you are forced to remove the unit from the game.


Precisely. So don't do anything to it. The skill says to treat it as a command token, and you don't do anything to your other command tokens when the corresponding units are removed from the game.


While I respect the rules as written and have played by them my feeling is that this is subtle enough that clarification may not have been deliberately omitted. That is to say that the intention was that you should choose a unit for this slot, you get the discount once and you only get the one unit that will ever have this advantage but that paralyze can subvert that was not noticed. None of which is to say that it wasn't intended exactly that way...

I do have minor concerns about the strength of Bonds of Loyalty and it did feel balanced by the fact that you got it early and put a weak unit in there or late and didn't get much use out of it. The interaction with paralyze definitely changes that. Still, not played enough yet to really know so I'm not that invested in the paralyze thing.


It's a fine enough point that this question should go to the FAQ thread for an "official" ruling. I agree that the skill appears to intend that you only get one free exta unit this way, no matter what...
 
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Pat G
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In one of the preview weeks the "Bonds of Loyalty" skill was shown. It was mentioned that in order to recruit a new unit in that position that you would have to come up with a "tricky" was of getting rid of the old one, since you can't disband it. Killing a unit there with paralyze and then getting a new one for -5 influence seems to fit right into that statement.
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Matt Jones
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CMoor213 wrote:
In one of the preview weeks the "Bonds of Loyalty" skill was shown. It was mentioned that in order to recruit a new unit in that position that you would have to come up with a "tricky" was of getting rid of the old one, since you can't disband it. Killing a unit there with paralyze and then getting a new one for -5 influence seems to fit right into that statement.


+1

I couldn't remember where Paul had mentioned that but its the first thing I thought of as well.
 
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Andrew Hurp
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A quick look through the previews leads us to: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/708224/mage-knight-board...
PaulGrogan wrote:
The other skill is Bonds of Loyalty. This is one of my favourites because I got it in my very first full game, and it seems amazingly powerful.

First of all, this skill gives you an extra command token. i.e The Skill itself counts as another command token, so you can recruit one more Unit. When you gain this Skill, you add 2 more regular Units to the Unit offer.

The Unit that you recruit into this slot costs you 5 less Influence to recruit. But it doesnt stop there. This unit is so loyal to you, it can be used even in situations when you couldn't normally use Units (i.e when down Dungeons or burning down a Monastery)

The only slight downside of this Skill is that you cant dismiss voluntarily the Unit that you recruit into this slot, so if you use it in the early game to recruit a low level Unit, you're going to have to find a clever way of getting rid of it if you want to replace it.

Emphasis mine
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