Eric Etkin
United States
New York
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Ok - So I've been slowly prepping TactDecks for a relaunch over the past year. Late 2010 and mid 2011 treated me to some ups and downs. Some decent to great early reviewer feedback, a disappointing Dice Tower review of the semi-completed game...
...and a steel-balls resolution to take all the criticism received, couple it with a rules tweak allowing a scalable number of players (3, 4, 5, 6) and forge a reskin/remix of the game in anticipation of a late 2012 Kickstarter launch.
- I've redone the cards.
- I've POD printed and shipped out a stack of decks to playtesters.
- I've researched, commented, and (hopefully) assisted others with launching their own campaigns, in effort to assist the community and educate myself.
- I even (with some great forumer help) was able to put the entire TactDecks: Reign of Heroes game up as a free PNP - all the bells and whistles included:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/762135/tactdecks-reign-of-he...
SO - that said... what the hell should I be doing now?! I've spent the last 3-4 years designing, tweaking, playtesting, shilling, and just generally fiddling with my game... I'm not used to just letting it "sit" for any amount of time. While I'm waiting for playtester feedback, is there anything I'm missing? Something else I should be doing while waiting for comments?
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Contests can be good for publicity. Could you drum something up to generate some buzz and give away a couple copies of the game?
Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): PS, I really am trying to get in some playtesting, but the semester is hellacious for me, and my usual gaming buddies are pretty busy, too. One of them--my best friend besides my wife--is getting married, though, which is exciting!
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Eric Etkin
United States
New York
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Possibly - It's a good idea, but I'm also hesitant to give out copies of the game until playtesting is completed.
Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): Studies should come first, so it's cool - But just be aware I'm going to be hitting up everyone for some feedback sooner or later. 
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Brandon M
United States Columbus Ohio
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Eric,
If you are going with kickstarter, I suggest you give the "Kickstarting the Dream" podcast a listen. A lot of insight from successful and unsuccessful projects and each episode is only 20-25min.
Also, make sure you have your numbers right on how much you will need for a print run and to pay kickstarter and amazon.
Finally, distribution. What level do you want this game out there? If you want to get the game into stores (FLGS and/or OLGS) you should figure out how you want to do that. Maybe look at Game Salute or a similar enterprise.
The best of luck to you,
Brandon
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Nicholas Vitek
United States Houston Texas
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Don't forget to set aside a bit for taxes, or at least keep it in mind.
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Eric Etkin
United States
New York
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JBMoby wrote: Eric,
If you are going with kickstarter, I suggest you give the "Kickstarting the Dream" podcast a listen. A lot of insight from successful and unsuccessful projects and each episode is only 20-25min.
Also, make sure you have your numbers right on how much you will need for a print run and to pay kickstarter and amazon.
Finally, distribution. What level do you want this game out there? If you want to get the game into stores (FLGS and/or OLGS) you should figure out how you want to do that. Maybe look at Game Salute or a similar enterprise.
The best of luck to you,
Brandon
Yep, yep - One of the guys in my group suggested that podcast. I was actually listening to it on the way to work this morning. 
I've already done my RFQs and talked to printers. Most of them are about the same relative printing cost for the volume I'm looking for (1000 units). My gut assessment (also backed up by those podcasts) is that I really should be shooting for a funding goal of way under 10K - preferably $6-7K is what I'm hoping for. My quotes are pretty tight, but I think I can make that budget, accounting for the the KS/Amazon cut, shipping costs, etc.
It kills me, because for a couple grand more I could literally double or triple my print run, but IMO it's not worth the risk of having a $10K goal that I don't end up making. As it is, I have enough trouble getting anyone to even notice this game, despite the decent amount of legwork I've done over the past year or so. I'm extremely worried about making even the smallest of goals, despite my confidence in the game. Inability to attract attention for any creative project I involve myself with has been a haunting curse for the last two decades or so of my life.
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Wade Nelson
United States Saint Louis Park Minnesota
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The Dice Tower review hurts. I understand that the review is one man's opinion and doesn't necessarily apply to the latest iteration of the game, but it's Tom Vasel and it's the most visible review on the game's page.
I think it would be great if you could get some more higher-profile reviews on the TactDecks page. Wytefang's review is pretty good, but a sale one review does not make.
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Eric Etkin
United States
New York
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wadenels wrote: The Dice Tower review hurts. I understand that the review is one man's opinion and doesn't necessarily apply to the latest iteration of the game, but it's Tom Vasel and it's the most visible review on the game's page.
I think it would be great if you could get some more higher-profile reviews on the TactDecks page. Wytefang's review is pretty good, but a sale one review does not make.
Yeah, the DT review is a thorn that's not going to go away easily. I made the mistake of jumping the gun and querying Tom with some serious faux pas -
First, I misrepresented the game to him. I think he was expecting Summoner Wars Part 2 - and TactDecks isn't, nor ever will be, a directly similar experience.
I guess when you're expecting Star Wars and get Star Trek instead, that would probably set you off on the wrong foot. Overall, I'd say TactDecks probably has deeper play, but that's offset by requiring players to better study their pieces before playing the game. Tom (I think) went into his session thinking it'd be a quick pick-up and play. TactDecks really doesn't click for most players until the second or third game.
Second, I believe I sent him the core game without expansions. The core is functional, and you can play with one single set, but it's extremely bare bones. But at the time, I had nothing else to send. There was a lengthy lag-time between when I sent the package to DT and when the game was reviewed, and in that time I began to realize the "booster" sale model doesn't work. Players loved the expansions, so one of the things I've addressed is incorporating them all into the base game. So now there's things like terrain height (your battlefield is essentially 3D), a greatly robust selection of pieces, etc. Those just weren't there in the small core deck I sent him. Live and learn.
Third, the art was clearly a set-back. That's been completely overhauled. Tom's criticism of having to turn over the cards constantly was also insightful, and I addressed that in the revision. I've also simplified some of the language, and in general streamlined play.
It's strange, because I have a review by a prominent community member that's not full-on positive, but at the same time I used that review to systematically go through and fix perceived issues. In a weird sort of way, it was extremely helpful, but to the casual gamer it looks like a sock in the nose.
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Ben Pinchback
United States Romeo Michigan
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Hopefully we all learn a key lesson here. Don't reveal your project for judgement until it's truely ready.
Good luck with your latest version. Also in the down time you can be working on your kickstarter levels and promos.
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m m
United States columbus Ohio
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When are you planning on launching the kickstarter campaign?
Are you doing something prior to Origins/Gencon?
Or I should say does your kickstarter campaign tie into having a booth/table at Origins or Gencon so you can re-launch and demo the updated game at either event?
Are you looking for reviews prior to starting the kickstarter campaign?
I would definitely talk to Richard Bliss about getting on his podcast http://www.thegamewhisperer.com/
You could talk to Kim Vandenbroucke as well she has a site for toy and game reviews www.kimvandenbroucke.com
As far as the campaign itself it’s all about driving traffic to the kickstarter page. I know some funding will come from people just searching within the game section on kickstarter for new games each week, but outside traffic can certainly have an impact. Are you set up for advertising outside of your own website through banner ads and using other social media?
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Eric Etkin
United States
New York
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80sgamer wrote: When are you planning on launching the kickstarter campaign? Are you doing something prior to Origins/Gencon? Or I should say does your kickstarter campaign tie into having a booth/table at Origins or Gencon so you can re-launch and demo the updated game at either event? Are you looking for reviews prior to starting the kickstarter campaign? I would definitely talk to Richard Bliss about getting on his podcast http://www.thegamewhisperer.com/You could talk to Kim Vandenbroucke as well she has a site for toy and game reviews www.kimvandenbroucke.comAs far as the campaign itself it’s all about driving traffic to the kickstarter page. I know some funding will come from people just searching within the game section on kickstarter for new games each week, but outside traffic can certainly have an impact. Are you set up for advertising outside of your own website through banner ads and using other social media?
All good points! In brief:
1) Demoing at cons outside my area is pretty much impossible. I have too many family/work obligations and not nearly enough cash/spousal support to float the hundreds (or more...?) of dollars to do an out-of-state trip, multi-day hotel stay, and booth rental. I've voiced concerns about this in the past - wondered if there's guys out there that actually demo games for multiple publishers - but that doesn't seem like a viable option. I'm sure there's plenty other designers in the same boat. Solution? Maybe more local cons? But those seem to be hit or miss to me, and it feels like the connections I have made at these are fleeting. And again... my time outside of the desktop is extremely limited.
2) Soliciting reviews pre-campaign is a definite possibility, however I want this second round of playtesting shored up before I do that.
3) Would you suggest contacting Richard pre-campaign? I don't know if his being privy to a game running through the entire funding process would be useful to him or not. I'm thinking it'd be an interesting study case... success or failure.
4) Am I a bad man because I haven't heard of Kim? I'll definitely reach out to her. Thanks for the tip!
5) I'm planning on at least some sort of advertising here on BGG. My experience in the broader social site end of things has been less than positive. It seems to be extremely over-crowded with everyone shouting for attention, not remotely based on merit.
There's also the nagging issue of me failing utterly when it comes to rah-rahing myself or my personal projects. It's like my introverted physical self somehow projects virtually... Seriously, my wallflowerness both on and offline is almost like some astounding mutant ability that must be seen to be believed.
If I'm to consider more broadcasted, generalized social media, I'd need some pointers for an attack plan - it's a completely vexxing and confusing sludge of tweets, twits, and game requests to me.
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m m
United States columbus Ohio
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What game/toy/comic cons are in your area?
I would ask Richard that, he could give you a better idea on what designers he has talked to and at what stage of their kickstarter campaign.
Kim is a regular on Linkedin, mostly in the toy groups
I am by no means a kickstarter campaign expert but as far as marketing in general, social media should be one tool that’s part of your overall marketing campaign and it does need to be an active process, but if used properly can drive traffic to your website or kickstarter page.
As far as plan, I would have a company page on Linkedin and join the related toy, game, design groups and talk about your project there. Facebook if you have a large network there already you could create a separate page for your company/game and then use your network to spread the word about the upcoming kickstarter campaign.
Twitter it’s all about adding followers, but not just followers, active followers and that does involve daily activity following people in the toy and game industry yourself and adding gamers as followers to your page.
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Eric Etkin
United States
New York
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80sgamer wrote: What game/toy/comic cons are in your area?
I'm in upstate NY, my friend. A land of rednecks, video gamers, and persons who still think truck genitals are cutting edge.
In all seriousness, we HAVE cons, but they're small. And in my experience, it seems gamers are going to these cons with express interest to play games they've already heard about or are familiar with. Maybe I've been to the wrong ones. Like I've said, I've hobnobbed with plenty of seemingly interested gamers, but actually getting people to sit down and play a game is beyond difficult. The culture, at least locally, revolves around familiarity. My personal gaming group seems to be highly abnormal in that we like to try new stuff.
80sgamer wrote: I would ask Richard that, he could give you a better idea on what designers he has talked to and at what stage of their kickstarter campaign.
Will do!
80sgamer wrote: Kim is a regular on Linkedin, mostly in the toy groups
I am by no means a kickstarter campaign expert but as far as marketing in general, social media should be one tool that’s part of your overall marketing campaign and it does need to be an active process, but if used properly can drive traffic to your website or kickstarter page.
As far as plan, I would have a company page on Linkedin and join the related toy, game, design groups and talk about your project there. Facebook if you have a large network there already you could create a separate page for your company/game and then use your network to spread the word about the upcoming kickstarter campaign.
Twitter it’s all about adding followers, but not just followers, active followers and that does involve daily activity following people in the toy and game industry yourself and adding gamers as followers to your page.
Here's the thing - and at this point I realize I totally sound like a pathetic whiny guy who'd rather sit at his desk and complain -
I'm one of those gents who by nature is compelled to always be creating crap. It's a sickness. Worse, I'm rather obsessive compulsive about it. Unlike many I've met over the years - I finish what I start, always... much to the chagrin of my wife... who I'm quite certain can't fathom/appreciate what the hell I'm doing on my computer every night.
I'm also concurrently trying to get a fiction-writing career off the ground. Before that, I was in a band for a number of years. Between AOL, then Myspace, then Facebook, then Twitter, then Linkedin, then specific sites/groups devoted to whatever specific creative endevour I'm currently working on - BGG, RPG.net, SCBWI - local and national - well... I'm literally at the breaking point.
I just don't have the time, inclination, or backstrength to do all this network stuff anymore, jump through all these flavor-of-the-week online hoops. And it just seems like it keeps snowballing more and more. I like BGG because it's a targeted microcosm. Facetwitspacedin, OTOH, is a dark scary place that seems to operate on a populist level I just don't comprehend.
Maybe this seems like a cop out. I don't know. But I just feel like I'm spending 90% of my free time talking about things, rather than producing.
At this point - I don't know - if getting something published or ANYONE interested in anything I do involves keeping up on a bazillion social networks, I'd rather just call it a day. I don't have the energy anymore.
Hmm. Maybe I need to locate an online marketing service. Or maybe I need to find someone who'd be willing to take on the social media publicity for the game, and I'll just build his/her fee into my Kickstarter goal.
Sorry for the rant... You're absolutely being helpful, and I don't want to give the impression I'm ungrateful for anyone's time.
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m m
United States columbus Ohio
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I would talk to some of the designers that have had successful campaigns recently and ask them how much time they had to put into marketing and which methods gave them the greatest return on traffic to generate traffic to their kickstarter page.
If it is more % of the time you would like to put into it, then yes I would look at bringing someone onboard to handle the marketing aspects.
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MOTHDevil wrote: 1) Demoing at cons outside my area is pretty much impossible. I have too many family/work obligations and not nearly enough cash/spousal support to float the hundreds (or more...?) of dollars to do an out-of-state trip, multi-day hotel stay, and booth rental. I've voiced concerns about this in the past - wondered if there's guys out there that actually demo games for multiple publishers - but that doesn't seem like a viable option. I'm sure there's plenty other designers in the same boat. Solution? Maybe more local cons? But those seem to be hit or miss to me, and it feels like the connections I have made at these are fleeting. And again... my time outside of the desktop is extremely limited.
I maintain that you could outsource the demos with some success. Sell a "demo set" of, I don't know, maybe a dozen copies of the game at-cost to someone willing and able to travel to cons. That person can then pay for their own booth to demo the game and try to sell their copies at full price to make their money back. Not a perfect system, but I think you could find a few people willing to do it. It would get the word out, it shouldn't cost you any money, and those who try it can potentially make a bit of money, if they're good salespeople.
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Eric Etkin
United States
New York
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kurthl33t wrote: MOTHDevil wrote: 1) Demoing at cons outside my area is pretty much impossible. I have too many family/work obligations and not nearly enough cash/spousal support to float the hundreds (or more...?) of dollars to do an out-of-state trip, multi-day hotel stay, and booth rental. I've voiced concerns about this in the past - wondered if there's guys out there that actually demo games for multiple publishers - but that doesn't seem like a viable option. I'm sure there's plenty other designers in the same boat. Solution? Maybe more local cons? But those seem to be hit or miss to me, and it feels like the connections I have made at these are fleeting. And again... my time outside of the desktop is extremely limited.
I maintain that you could outsource the demos with some success. Sell a "demo set" of, I don't know, maybe a dozen copies of the game at-cost to someone willing and able to travel to cons. That person can then pay for their own booth to demo the game and try to sell their copies at full price to make their money back. Not a perfect system, but I think you could find a few people willing to do it. It would get the word out, it shouldn't cost you any money, and those who try it can potentially make a bit of money, if they're good salespeople.
Yeah, I'll definitely check into that. The question is: How do I locate these guys? And would they pay "cost" for the game? If I do these POD, the price is pretty steep. Granted - if they sold them at MSRP, they'd make decent money, but IMO the buy-in is still pricey for a traveling demo guy.
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MOTHDevil wrote: kurthl33t wrote: MOTHDevil wrote: 1) Demoing at cons outside my area is pretty much impossible. I have too many family/work obligations and not nearly enough cash/spousal support to float the hundreds (or more...?) of dollars to do an out-of-state trip, multi-day hotel stay, and booth rental. I've voiced concerns about this in the past - wondered if there's guys out there that actually demo games for multiple publishers - but that doesn't seem like a viable option. I'm sure there's plenty other designers in the same boat. Solution? Maybe more local cons? But those seem to be hit or miss to me, and it feels like the connections I have made at these are fleeting. And again... my time outside of the desktop is extremely limited.
I maintain that you could outsource the demos with some success. Sell a "demo set" of, I don't know, maybe a dozen copies of the game at-cost to someone willing and able to travel to cons. That person can then pay for their own booth to demo the game and try to sell their copies at full price to make their money back. Not a perfect system, but I think you could find a few people willing to do it. It would get the word out, it shouldn't cost you any money, and those who try it can potentially make a bit of money, if they're good salespeople. Yeah, I'll definitely check into that. The question is: How do I locate these guys? And would they pay "cost" for the game? If I do these POD, the price is pretty steep. Granted - if they sold them at MSRP, they'd make decent money, but IMO the buy-in is still pricey for a traveling demo guy.
Well, having not seen any of the numbers, I have no idea what, exactly, you might have them pay. The point would be to offer them a big discount for a large number of copies of the game. Then they can try to make that money back at conventions. Even if they don't sell every single copy, they've got some cheap Christmas gifts, and they had fun demoing a game.
One problem would be making sure that you don't offer this to stores, or to people who will just turn around and sell these copies online. Maybe have some sort of brief contract where they agree to only sell the copies at conventions for the next 12 months, or something. (If they can't hawk their copies after a year, then I say let them try to sell them on eBay or whatever.)
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Ben Pinchback
United States Romeo Michigan
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What's your goal?
1. To make some real cash. 2. To have the most people possible play your game?
My goal is 2 which is why we've gone the try to license to the larger publishers route.
Anyway, knowing which goal you have will drive some of your decisions.
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Sam Mercer
United Kingdom Southampton Hampshire
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Eric - totally go to a publisher man.
If you are telling us that you are at the end and along with all your other stuff (hows the book coming?) is a little too much, then what you need your ass is a publisher! That's what they do! 
Kickstarter is a pain in the behind man. Yes it can work (check out my interview with Aquin, the D-Day Dice Creator) and of course Mr Jaffee's Eminent Domain and dice hate me's Carnivaland (more recently) JavaVivaJava: The Coffee Game etc.
BUT these are the few games that have done super well. A lot do "ok" or at least do "enough to cover there printing runs" - at this level I think it would be comapred to a run on spod or the game creafter or artscow some such. It is the start only. Which, you already have!
What you can then do though, is submit your full working game to a publisher and get them to publish it - eg. Print it, market it, and maybe even take it to kickstarter themselves.
If you DO go to kickstarter, you have to be ready to (technically) create companies, sign tax forms, be prepared for returns, storage and international postage and all that hoo-hah. Especially if you are coming to the end of your tether generally with it - then perhaps going "superman" on it with kickstarter is not a good idea.
Publisher man. Send it to one. Send it to loads even. I would reccomend pitching to some publishers, let them do what they do best and you can sit back and enjoy some royalties. Luck should have that David Miller has just put up an article by Ron Weingartner - the co-author of the game inventors handbook ( http://www.purplepawn.com/2012/02/pitching-a-game-to-a-poten...) which will give you a nice overview about pitching to publishers and what they look at on a wider front.
Have you spoken to Indy Boards and Cards? I know he's around here somewhere, he seems like a really nice guy and I am sure would at least listen to what you have to say? Wishing Tree Games will have finished their Seven Sisters kickstarter thing soon and are another (new) bgg-regular publishers trying out, quite a few lurk about here and it will probably be VERY worth your time thinking seriously about submitting it tp pubslihers and saving yourself a lot of practical and organisational stress 
p.s. You never sent me a beta-test copy - I'm a kick ass beta tester AND I write for purple pawn 
best of luck mate!
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Matt Lee
United States East Meadow New York
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Eric,
I've replied to your older thread about demo people in the past, and I wonder if you have any contact with any of the convention dealers who go to a lot of them.
Andrew from Foam Brain Games is pretty well known, for example, and goes to many conventions around the country actively. Having spoken with him in person at Pax East and AnimeNEXT, he has a library that smaller conventions can rent and if people ask about certain games, they can point them to the main dealer's hall.
Another possibility is to work with the conventions and have a copy sent to their loaning library (if they have one) with perhaps some advertising to a specific vendor. Steve Jackson Games advertises their games specifically with The Compleat Strategist at Pax East, but other vendors carry stock for non-exclusives for people who want one stop shopping.
At conventions I have staffed at, companies do often send a copy of a game to the convention where the staffers can point people to a vendor who may carry it on hand, or where they can order it from at the convention. That might be another possibility as well. I know that for this coming year, I intend to work with Foam Brain Games to help stock a few copies of games that will be in the loaning library for AnimeNEXT for sale.
Hope you can figure out some kind of way to get the game out there and selling!
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Eric Etkin
United States
New York
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Hi Sam!
Cogentesque wrote: If you are telling us that you are at the end and along with all your other stuff (hows the book coming?) is a little too much, then what you need your ass is a publisher! That's what they do!  .... What you can then do though, is submit your full working game to a publisher and get them to publish it - eg. Print it, market it, and maybe even take it to kickstarter themselves.
Yeah - my primary goal isn't so much to make a ton of money, as it is to see the game get played and (most importantly) control the IP and where the game direction is going.
I have to admit - I'm somewhat naive on game publishers, mainly because my knowledge is informed entirely by the book industry. My assumption was that once the game publisher buys your game, your input is reduced to nil. If there's publishers out there that will publish a game mostly as-is, and all that tiem and money I spent reworking art isn't thrown out the window, it's something I'd consider...
But here's the other thing - and again, this is from my small amount of book publisher experience - Once the publishers print the game, advertising, marketing, and general sales support can lag. I've seen SO many crappy books propped up great marketing campaigns, and SO many great books languish in obscurity because the publisher didn't consider them to be on the top-tier for marketing support.
The last thing I want is to sell my game -even if I maintain some degree of IP control - and watch it fester. Ione of the reasons I was attracted to self publishing a game is because I'm already doing the "long route" in traditional book publishing, and I've gotten very tired with the pitch to agent - pitch to editor - pitch to marketing department - get rejected cycle.
Cogentesque wrote: If you DO go to kickstarter, you have to be ready to (technically) create companies, sign tax forms, be prepared for returns, storage and international postage and all that hoo-hah. Especially if you are coming to the end of your tether generally with it - then perhaps going "superman" on it with kickstarter is not a good idea..
Well - I've had a background in maunfacturing (procurement/buying and inventory). While I'm no supply/demand genius, I'm pretty hip to the cycle involved once a product is sent to a manufacturer. I'm not shying away from the "business" end of the deal - it's the social networking stuff. It's a young man's game, IMO, and I've got too much on my lap already to spin all of these other plates.
Like I mentioned before - I can't possibly fathom there aren't people out there who basically do online publicity for guys like me - and probably excel at it.
Cogentesque wrote: Publisher man. Send it to one. Send it to loads even. I would reccomend pitching to some publishers, let them do what they do best and you can sit back and enjoy some royalties.... ...it will probably be VERY worth your time thinking seriously about submitting it tp pubslihers and saving yourself a lot of practical and organisational stress 
Let's face it: when it comes to my creations, I'm a control freak. If i can find a publisher who'd be willing to take on some of the "marketing" duties and maybe order fulfillment, I'd be plenty happy to cut them in for a split, and maybe switch the "Soiree" publishing company I'm trying to start to an imprint.
Cogentesque wrote: p.s. You never sent me a beta-test copy - I'm a kick ass beta tester AND I write for purple pawn  best of luck mate!
Thanks!
I haven't forgotten about you! I miscalculated on my playtest deck order. I have your deck, but I'm still trying to schedule some time with my own gaming group so I can run a 4-5 man team play with two decks. I'm HOPING to do that tomorrow, but I'm three week running now and we keep running out of time to play TD each week.
Geekmail me your address. I'll get it out to you as soon as we're done. (And maybe I'll have to order a few more tester decks from Spod...)
Oh yeah... almost forgot... the book thing. Ha! Which one? 
The LARP book I'm revising is turnign out to need a much heavier edit than I initially thought when I contracted it. I'm cool with that, but I feel bad because the original publisher/editor has been waiting for months now, and I'm still only about 3/4 through my line edits. Ont he plus side, it reads waaaaaay better and I'm confident this will turn out to be a great product for the LARPing niche.
The other book - the YA sci-fi I'm writing - is going very slow.... It's been about 1.5 years since I finished my last book - my agent is probably wondering what the hell is going on with this new thing. I'm abotu 10 pages in and still need to figure some of the science and world building out.
Never a dull moment.....
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Eric Etkin
United States
New York
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klz_fc wrote: Eric,
I've replied to your older thread about demo people in the past, and I wonder if you have any contact with any of the convention dealers who go to a lot of them.
Andrew from Foam Brain Games is pretty well known, for example, and goes to many conventions around the country actively. Having spoken with him in person at Pax East and AnimeNEXT, he has a library that smaller conventions can rent and if people ask about certain games, they can point them to the main dealer's hall.
Another possibility is to work with the conventions and have a copy sent to their loaning library (if they have one) with perhaps some advertising to a specific vendor. Steve Jackson Games advertises their games specifically with The Compleat Strategist at Pax East, but other vendors carry stock for non-exclusives for people who want one stop shopping.
At conventions I have staffed at, companies do often send a copy of a game to the convention where the staffers can point people to a vendor who may carry it on hand, or where they can order it from at the convention. That might be another possibility as well. I know that for this coming year, I intend to work with Foam Brain Games to help stock a few copies of games that will be in the loaning library for AnimeNEXT for sale.
Hope you can figure out some kind of way to get the game out there and selling!
Hi Matt!
Is Andrew effectively the sort of "traveling demo guy" I'm looking for? My concern with hiring someone to do cons without having a product to BUY is that the lag time between when someone sees a game and gets home from a con is HUGE - I wonder how many of those contacts would translate to a Kickstarter pledge?
Still... worth considering.
I've sent copies of the 1st edition of TactDecks to con libraries in the past - I've gotten ZERO feedback. For all I know, the game never got played and is still sitting there in shrink wrap. Without a forceful marketing presence at cons, am I consigning my game to the "lonely bin"?
Pax East is also something I've considered - if I go though - it would be purely to demo a product - and the booth rates + hotel for PAX are awfully high for what would amount to me sitting at a table begging people to play my game. And then there's the "time away from family" issue I'd need to deal with. Maybe I need to circle back around and see if I can get some sympathy from the PAX sales people...
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Sturv Tafvherd
United States
North Carolina
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Eric --
I completely empathize with you. I'm almost like you ... engaged in so many little projects (fortunately, I haven't tried to revive my fiction-writing bug.) Unlike you, however, I'm not driven to finish my projects ... which might actually be a bad thing, since they just start piling up.
Also, like you, I'm somewhat introverted when it comes to real-life / offline stuff. I can write up a storm, and I can be a party animal when I'm in an online chat room ... but put me into a physical party, and I'd be the guy in the corner ...
... most likely twiddling with pen and paper and working on some aspect of a game design project.
So ... a piece of advice ... and I'll probably do this when I ever get myself into a "let's finish this" mode ...
Get a Business Partner
It's extremely hard to be someone who is good at everything. But it's relatively easier to be someone who is good at ONE thing.
So, if you are someone who is good at Game Design, then focus on that for your business. Find someone (someone you trust!) who is good at the Business aspects of it -- marketing, publishing, administration -- to be your partner.
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Ben Pinchback
United States Romeo Michigan
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A partner can be a great thing. Especially if they have some energy and talent in the areas you are tired of.
Also, don't assume a publisher will just buy your game, run off, and change everything. You can absolutely have conversation and input along the way. Matt and I will have our Gryphon sponsored kickstarter launched next month (Fleet: Coming Soon!!) and our experience has been collaboration the entire process. It's ok to have respectful and professional conversations and disagreements with the publisher. If they sign on to license your game It's because they like your game and think they can make money with it. That's what they want, to make money with your game, by making it the best game possible and getting it to gamers. They're on your team.
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Matt Lee
United States East Meadow New York
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Andrew is the main person I know at Foam Brain, and the conversations I've had with him are mostly with the traveling library part, but I do know he's trying to make that kind of synergistic demo -> dealer room flow working. I'm not entirely sure about doing demos, but you might want to contact them via their website and find out. Couldn't hurt.
The reason I mentioned him specifically is because I've spoken with him and he is a dealer, so just like you want, the ability to buy the game at the convention is important. Once the chance to sell a copy at the convention is gone, it's hard to know if the sale will still happen, and unless there is the ability to pre-order or pledge to kickstarter right after the demo, I'm pretty sure the percentage of contacts who would pursue the game afterwards is very, very low.
Even if the convention has its own library, coordinating with Andrew to carry copies of certain games is what would help everyone involved, and that is where my comment was trying to lead. Not just the random game library, but also a dealer at the convention to bring up the other necessary half of selling the game.
Just so you know, Pax East may not be the best option for you, since their audience generally tilts towards games that can be played while in line, but perhaps speak with the Strategist or Foam Brain to carry copies and then maybe sponsor a tournament with a copy to give away with the actual tabletop team might help?
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