Mark Jimenez
United States
San Francisco
California
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No pictures, but picture cobbling these parts together for an Ogre session for my wife's first introduction to CRT via Ogre (using my copy of Ogre/GEV as a reference for the Basic Scenario):
• Heroscape tiles for the basic map, with gaps for Craters
• Settlers of Catan roads for Rubble (needed 2 more pieces than supplied for the basic map, just crumpled up some napkin pieces for those) - the roads fit nicely into the grooves between hexes
• A white factory from the old Axis and Allies (A&A) for the CP
• Some AA guns from A&A for Howitzers
• British tan tanks from A&A for Heavy Tanks
• Yellow infantry from Fortress America (FA) for Infantry
• Yellow hovertanks from FA for GEVs
• Yellow APCs from FA for Missile Tanks
• A big Panzer from Memoir '44 for the Ogre
• A laptop showing an Excel spreadsheet with the To-Hit CRT and unit stats
For her introduction to Ogre, I thought it was easier for her to start with the Mark III, vs 12 Armor & 20 Infantry, with 20 attack points forward. Not having played this since the Apple II days, I hastily set up 4 GEVs and a line of Infantry up front for my 20 Attack points forward.
The CP was setup at the far upper left corner. 2 Howitzers in the middle covered the back half of the map, with support by some Missile Tanks and Heavy tanks, and the second line of Infantry.
The Ogre appeared from the lower left corner and started dashing for the center. Anticipating a move up the center, I brought most of my forces straight down. This proved to be a big tactical mistake later.
The front line GEVs started with the standard hit-and-run tactics, attacking some Treads and a knocking out a some Antipersonal (AP) guns and a Secondary Battery, in preparation for the second Infantry line to intercept.
After a couple of turns, the Ogre changed directions back to the left map edge, rendering a few squads of Infantry on the other side useless for the rest of the battle.
By the time the GEVs were wiped out, the secondary armor line converged in all directions, taking out more Tread, the Main Battery, and another Secondary.
Halfway up the map, the Ogre took a turn back towards the center to lob both of her Missiles at the Howitzers. The two guns together only hit the Treads once before eating an insta-kill 6:1 attack/defense ratio from the Missiles. The Howitzer duo was the main part of my force that could whittle down Tread.
With the big guns down, the remaining Armor force and a few Infantry were struggled to get the Mark III's Treads below 30, but not soon enough. The Ogre barreled her way to Secondary range with 23 Tread, 2 Secondaries, and 6 AP when the CP died.
I think this was a great introduction to CRT wargaming (as well as gateway to wargaming) with my wife. With most of our previous gaming on Euros and her unfamiliarity with wargaming in general, I wanted the presentation to be more appealing for her than chits and a fold-out map. The Heroscape tiles worked great, even for Infantry Overruns.
The Excel CRT was acceptable. As an example: she could see that applying some weapons, she would get a 1:1, and applying more could get her to 2:1. Though the Ogre is only one unit, she got to see the benefit of combined arms with application of more weapons on a given attack. She also got a taste of combined arms with attacks from multiple vehicles - I could sense the pain for her seeing the Main gun go down from 2 Heavies.
It clicked for her to hold the Missiles and save them for the Howitzers.
The biggest highlight for me was 2 moves before the deathblow to the CP. She had to choose between delaying to destroy a trailing Heavy Tank or moving 2 towards the CP. "I want everyone to die, " she said. She of course drove on towards the CP to fulfill the primary mission, but for a moment one could see the look in her eye for complete destruction of the enemy.
In the end, we critiqued our tactics and (most importantly) she found it fun. This is a big deal for me, as not only is she my main gaming partner, but she also reads and speaks very little English. Looking forward to another session tonight, and hopefully more complex wargaming in the future.
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Andrew Tullsen
United States
Tigard
Oregon
Custom Prototypes, Game Parts, Print & Play Games, Short Runs, POD
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mgamer72 wrote: "I want everyone to die, " she said.
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Jefferson Krogh
United States
San Leandro
California
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Well done! It's just a great game.
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Andrew Walters
United States
Hercules
California
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Excellent.
You got your wife off on the right foot enjoying wargames.
You showed the people whining about Ogre being out-of-print how it's done.
You did fail, however, to defend the CP. But if the CP had to die to make sure she had a good time, it was probably worth the sacrifice.
While this is a great intro, you both need to know that there is a big difference in fun factor between running a Mark III over everything in sight and figuring out how the procedure to trace supply routes over the Russian Steppe differs for Winter '42 vs Spring '43, but you'll get there.
Meanwhile, since you're local we need to let you know that the bay area Ogre fans are discussing some kind of 35th anniversary event. It's still in the early stages.
Congrats!
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Mark Jimenez
United States
San Francisco
California
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andreww wrote:
While this is a great intro, you both need to know that there is a big difference in fun factor between running a Mark III over everything in sight and figuring out how the procedure to trace supply routes over the Russian Steppe differs for Winter '42 vs Spring '43, but you'll get there.
Congrats!
Thank you. The journey there may be difficult, and may not happen at all, but I want to try. I'll be browsing the Geek for ideas here. As I intend on having this gaming partner for the foreseeable future, I've got plenty of time and don't need to rush the complexity.
A part of me was disappointed in my performance. Really, what a bad decisions I made on initial deployment! I certainly won't make that mistake next time. She wants to switch sides on tonight's game, but I told her I wanted a rematch as the defender.
Even with Ogre, there's more options I can explore. I'd love to add mines, or a hardend CP.
At the risk of veering off-topic here, what I don't want to do is scare her away with too much complexity too quickly. Add one variable at a time. Maybe split up an Ambush! squad together. Eventually make the move to chits/blocks with more complexity.
I'm not trying to gloat here or get all mushy. It's just that prior to this, it seemed to be an impossibility to even consider generating interest in gaming tactical conflicts. I took a big risk here. The topic isn't familiar, and the conflict is much different than "aha, I took the wood you needed!" ala Stone Age or (more related) "turning Asam left gives me a 2 in 6 chance to land on your carpet". I had thought about re-theming this as a big dragon storming to the king's castle. But I wanted to game it as I did many years ago and felt the right way to do it was smooth the way component-wise.
What I'm trying to get at here is that there may be other options, but after all these years, it's dawned on me that Ogre may just be the way in for some folks.
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Andrew Walters
United States
Hercules
California
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A couple other stray thoughts...
If she's a big reader, see if you can get her to read a military history book or two. There are some that women enjoy, and a game on a familiar and interesting topic is often a lot more attractive. Stephen Ambrose, Barbara Tuchman. Connie Willis has a couple WW2 books out my wife loves.
2 de Mayo - possible next step, not too complicated, fun gameplay.
Are there any military history movies she likes, might like? That's another path. Sharpe!
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Mark Sockwell
United States
Scottsboro
Alabama
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Dude, you are my freakin' HERO!!!!
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Mark Jimenez
United States
San Francisco
California
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andreww wrote: A couple other stray thoughts... If she's a big reader, see if you can get her to read a military history book or two. There are some that women enjoy, and a game on a familiar and interesting topic is often a lot more attractive. Stephen Ambrose, Barbara Tuchman. Connie Willis has a couple WW2 books out my wife loves. 2 de Mayo - possible next step, not too complicated, fun gameplay. Are there any military history movies she likes, might like? That's another path. Sharpe!
For now, her English reading skills are quite limited. We have Post-Its in Thai on every card on the Agricola E-deck. Lord of the Rings: Confrontation only worked because we watched the extended edition trilogy (which I had to 50% translate to English real time) and the game has only a few types of cards (magic ones had to be Post-It'ed). etc...
Thanks for the 2 de Mayo tip - I'll check it out.
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Andrew Walters
United States
Hercules
California
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2 de Mayo has text on the cards. It's a great game, but "Jimenez" + San Francisco, I was guessing Spanish was the language. You probably want a more language independent wargame than 2 de Mayo, though it's still worth checking out.
I've always like One-Page Bulge as a simple but flavorful game. CRT, hexes, standard wargame stuff, but very tuned to the historical situation. No language within the game. Oop, but not expensive.
Battle for Moscow is free print-and-play and pretty well-regarded.
Victory Point games has their "20" series. They have a little text in them, but they're simple, fun, available for multiple periods (or at least WW2 and Napoleonics) and I have friends who play them frequently and like them.
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Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
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Cool story. Congrats!
andreww wrote: You showed the people whining about Ogre being out-of-print how it's done.
Except for the people who don't own Ogre rules. 
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Andrew Walters
United States
Hercules
California
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You can get the Ogre rules free and legitimately from SJ Games. Go to...
http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG37-5001
...and the miniatures rules are free. 2" = one hex is about all the conversion you need to be back to the board game rules.
Own the Ogre rules today! Try them!
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Jakto Hi'tidi
United States
oklahoma city
Oklahoma
Utinni!
Utinni!
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Quote: "I want everyone to die, " she said.
Wow! I'm in love! Where do I find an Ogre playing Thai girl? You hit the jackpot. 
She must really enjoy spending time with you to delve into something like this.
You might test drive Test of Fire: Bull Run 1861 with her. It has a about a dozen different card texts, but with all the same imagery on the corresponding cards, it wouldn't be hard to make a Thai crib sheet. It uses dice as a fog of war on command and control. I really enjoyed it, as a lighter wargame. It's small and not a shelf or table hog, and the bits and art are all very attractive.
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Mark Jimenez
United States
San Francisco
California
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Great_Mazinga wrote: Quote: "I want everyone to die, " she said. Wow! I'm in love! Where do I find an Ogre playing Thai girl? You hit the jackpot. She must really enjoy spending time with you to delve into something like this. You might test drive Test of Fire: Bull Run 1861 with her. It has a about a dozen different card texts, but with all the same imagery on the corresponding cards, it wouldn't be hard to make a Thai crib sheet. It uses dice as a fog of war on command and control. I really enjoyed it, as a lighter wargame. It's small and not a shelf or table hog, and the bits and art are all very attractive.
I certainly feel lucky every day.
Thanks for the ToF:Bull Run recommendation - I'll give it a look.
With 6E on the horizon, we're in for 2 sets, and are looking forward to the new treatment to the game. I had placed the Heroscape map (with the Catan roads) on top of one of our shelves, and at some point thereafter had bumped into the shelf and causing a rain of hexes and road-sticks.
Thanks to Ogre, in March I introduced her to Tank on Tank on the tactical side, Axis & Allies D-Day and 42 at the strategic level. Looking forward to more fun along those lines.
Along your "where do I find" question...I've come to revise my thinking somewhat based on my experience with gaming and partners in my life. In general, understand your partner, express thanks with every game, positive feedback and patience in both directions, find that right path/combinations of experiences (logical game curriculum, associated media to generate interest like movies, pre-post game discussion) for a rewarding gaming experience for everyone., and (in my case), quick access to a Thai-English e-dictionary.
"She must really enjoy spending time with you..." - gaming partner (wife or otherwise), this is certainly important. I would think gaming that requires significant and mutual time investment works better when the folks involved more than tolerate each other. I also make sure that I balance time spent with other things - going out, watching movies, etc. As much as I would love to game with all of my free time, in my experience, I've found that to be a road to relationship disaster. In comparison to our week long A&A games, Ogre is one of those in which we can finish in a single session.
I'm of the opinion that people are into gaming, or not. Not, due to bad experience or lack of exposure. Bad experience is very difficult to overcome (like working yourself out of bad debt), and lack of exposure is easily remedied, but keep in mind to make the experience good.
In my quest to find a life-long partner, I made it a point to find a gamer wife, or at least one with potential. I used some classic gateways early in my courtship to gauge this interest. I also made it a point to be up front (when appropriate) about the collection and my interest in it.
IMO, a big factor that I have found out later since having played Ogre with my wife is that she was into jigsaw puzzles and puzzle-type games back in the day. Puzzles to Ogre, yes a big stretch, but not impossible. Games to some extent are puzzles to be solved. To circle this back to Ogre, introducing my wife to Ogre as the Mark III driver gave her an empowering wargaming puzzle to solve every turn - how do I survive and destroy the CP given this board state?
We've since played A&A and Tank on Tank, but I stand resolved that introducing Ogre (in the manner that I did) as the gateway was key to our great journey so far.
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