A.T. Selvaggio
United States
Webster
New York
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Ok, I have been moving my way up the wargame foodchain and am now flirting with ASLSK 1. I have played a couple of sample games with an experienced ASL player and am now working through a solo game of ASLSK. My problem is that I find the learning curve, even for ASLSK, a bit steep. Even the mechanics of a turn don't seem intuitive, they seem like using a PC when you have a Mac. I have played squad level games like CoH, CC and Band of Brothers. These games seem to get to the center of the tension and fun of such games with intuitive and manageable rulesets (plus no CRTs!). But I am guessing that there is something I am missing, something that is over the hill of learning in ASL. For those who love this game, tell me why persevering is worth it. Is it the community? Is it tradition? Is it the expandability of the game? Is it the detail and "realism?". What does ASL have that no other squad level game has?
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Cpl. Fields
South Africa
Hopelessly Surrounded
Isandlwana, Zululand
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ASL is not a church. ASL is a cult.
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Peter Martin
United States
Oceanside
California
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Let me help you with this...Valor & Victory.
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Mark Humphries
Philippines
Unspecified
Metro Manila
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atsgamer wrote: What does ASL have that no other squad level game has?
Inexhaustibility. The quality and variety of scenarios and opponents.
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Roger Hobden
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
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Let me be the first to say this: RSP !
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Kent Reuber
United States
San Mateo
California
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The main advantage I see with ASL is that there are a hugh variety of scenarios available in whatever theater might interest you. Then again, I can say the same thing for the Panzer Grenadier series, and it only has 16 pages of rules.
I gave up on Squad Leader (and never played ASL) because of the shear number of rules that you had to deal with. If you didn't play it all the time (some have called it a "life style game"), you had to spend effort re-learning.
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Roger Hobden
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
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zuludawn wrote: ASL is not a church. ASL is a cult.
It's the Wargame equivalent to the Church of the Final Atonement. 
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Genghis Ahn
United States
San Clemente
California
Sometimes You Are Wrong !
Coolest Promo Ever ! Stonewall Lives
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TESTIFY !!!
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Patrick Carroll
United States
Carver
Minnesota
"If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly." (GK Chesterton)
"That's how the light gets in." (Leonard Cohen)
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atsgamer wrote: What does ASL have that no other squad level game has?
Rules that you'll never stop having to learn or brush up on. And more scenarios than you'll ever play in a lifetime.
Oh, and the feeling that you've climbed wargaming's equivalent of Mount Everest.
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Not sure if the Shrike cult would be honored or offended by that....
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Jim Ransom
United States
Forest
Virginia
"Tenacity, Dick. Stay with the bastard until he's on the bottom." Morton to O'Kane, USS WAHOO (SS 238), 1943
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atsgamer wrote: What does ASL have that no other squad level game has?
"That certain, 'I don't know what.' "
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Gregory Smith
United States
Newark
California
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This link leads to one of the most eloquent answers to your question that I have read: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/386060/an-attempt-to-des...
And also, ASL is not a lifestyle game unless you want it to be. All of the ASL players I know play a lot of other games too. ASL is not a cult, nor are ASL players any more cultish than the enthusiasts of other systems. Most ASL players I know also play other tactical WWII game systems, so they are not blind to other systems.
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Jeff Perrella
United States
Anoka
Minnesota
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JaggedTech wrote: This link leads to one of the most eloquent answers to your question that I have read: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/386060/an-attempt-to-des...And also, ASL is not a lifestyle game unless you want it to be. All of the ASL players I know play a lot of other games too. ASL is not a cult, nor are ASL players any more cultish than the enthusiasts of other systems. Most ASL players I know also play other tactical WWII game systems, so they are not blind to other systems.
Wow. That was awesome, thanks for posting the link!
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A.T. Selvaggio
United States
Webster
New York
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JaggedTech wrote: This link leads to one of the most eloquent answers to your question that I have read: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/386060/an-attempt-to-des...And also, ASL is not a lifestyle game unless you want it to be. All of the ASL players I know play a lot of other games too. ASL is not a cult, nor are ASL players any more cultish than the enthusiasts of other systems. Most ASL players I know also play other tactical WWII game systems, so they are not blind to other systems.
Thanks for this link. Bingo.
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Roger Hobden
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
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zuludawn wrote: ASL is not a church. ASL is a cult.
I would say that the main cult of the BGG wargame sub domain is the Case Blue Oyster Cult
[youtube=tf2c185ezjA&feature=related]
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Roger Hobden
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
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JaggedTech wrote:
Thanks for this post.
I need to try this system again.
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J Fro
United States
North Tonawanda
United States
I just want to say, God, on behalf of all of us thank you for all of the good things we do in your name, like charity and forgiveness. That’s an idea we would never come up with. That’s for sure. You know that better than anybody.
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CHURCH?!?!
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Cpl. Sadler 8-0
United States
Rockville
Maryland
Hey, MMP! I want Marines, not Finns! RISING SUN NOW! HAAKAKAKAKA PALAAAAAAA LATER!
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ASL generates narrative like no other boardgame I have ever played. The seemingly needless complexity arose out of an attempt to allow the players to do anything. What if I want to do a drive by with the MG on an armored personnel character? What if an engineer throws a demolition charge down the stairwell? The range of possibilities is huge. Most of the hard rules are edge cases.
It's like a D&D game, but instead of telling the story of Beef McSlabHuge the Lawful Good paladin, you are telling the tale of Baker Company, 1st Battalion Fifth Marines at Pelelieu. It follows the same model of taking a million things into account and generating a target number to see if the action succeeds. After a while, all of the normal action become routine and you only have to dive into the rulebook when someone is trying to drive a Satan flamethrower tank off of a landing craft in choppy water.
Like D&D, everyone will play it wrong the first few dozen times. But you still get the "remember when your berserk Gunnery Sergeant managed to clear that whole cave after his flamethrower blew up?" moments. Don't worry about a total understanding or even winning. Don't be afraid to wing it when you can't find a rule. Agree to play it a certain way with an understanding that you will look it up later for future games.
Another way it is like D&D is that new players really need a Dungeon Master to teach the game and provide an opponent. The DM always knows the lion's share of the rules until his players have played for a long time. Then the players handle more and more of the rules themselves until everyone is fluent in the system. This doesn't bother people much in rpgs, but it sure frustrates people trying to learn ASL.
In the end, if the game doesn't appeal strongly, spend time playing games that do what you want them to. I tried for a long time to see what I was missing with Magic Realm and realized that the problem was that I actually just don't like it.
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M@tthijs
Netherlands
NOT
Holland
Earn tons of geekgold:...
...go to VGG and add videogames to the database
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Mark_WH wrote: atsgamer wrote: What does ASL have that no other squad level game has? Inexhaustibility. The quality and variety of scenarios and opponents.
About the variety of opponents: I've never 'met' a woman playing it, so far.
About the quality: they all smell the same!
Patrick Carroll wrote: atsgamer wrote: What does ASL have that no other squad level game has? [..]And more scenarios than you'll ever play in a lifetime.
Patrick Carroll wrote: Oh, and the feeling that you've climbed wargaming's equivalent of Mount Everest. That I believe.
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Magister Ludi
France
Paris
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This user is both female and an ASL player...
http://boardgamegeek.com/user/mrs_z
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Mark Humphries
Philippines
Unspecified
Metro Manila
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_Kael_ wrote: Mark_WH wrote: atsgamer wrote: What does ASL have that no other squad level game has? Inexhaustibility. The quality and variety of scenarios and opponents. SL has that for scenarios too. Which disqualifies that part of the answer.
According to http://www.aslscenarioarchive.com/ there are currently 5,419 ASL scenarios, no other squad level game comes close.
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Víctor Pérez
Other-Africa
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I realise I have become an ASL Anabaptist. I still love the game, but I have become to disregard its worldly existence and the
whore of Babylon Papist Anti-Christ loving, caring game company that has spiritual monopoly over it and provides its dogma modules to its believers when and how it sees fit. It is on theological grounds that I refuse to partake in military and civil government tournaments and ranked ladders, and my attitude towards the new trends in the game is one of non-conformity. So, be a priest and spread the Ruleset yourself, and don't wait for others to provide you guidance, for no one has a place between a gamer and ASL.
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Mark Humphries
Philippines
Unspecified
Metro Manila
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_Kael_ wrote: About the variety of opponents: I've never 'met' a woman playing it, so far. About the quality: they all smell the same!
And you smell like a troll 
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Rodney Clow
Canada
Moncton
New Brunswick
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Much like the Bible, the ASL rulebook is long winded and written in a funny english. It's been also known to change some people's lives.
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