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Subject: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland] rss

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Jessey
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RISE OF REBELS

Captain McGurvey burst through the door into the strategy room, panting heavily from a hard sprint. He issued a hurried salute to the General and quickly delivered his message, “The Chancellor has been assassinated.”

The General's face remained stone-like and stern. His eyes scanned the map of The Ring spread out on the table, little red and blue flags marked territory controlled by the two Rebel groups. “An untimely event. We need to move quickly then. With luck we can secure the Reactor before word reaches the Crimson Phoenix.”

“Aye.” McGurvey nodded in agreement. He leaned over the map and gestured to three cities, “We have strong support in these locations. I will raise troops there and make for the Reactor.”

“Do not underestimate them McGurvey, keep the wheels of science turning and the underground training camps in operation. We may yet win this without a fight, but should it become a brawl I do not want to be caught with my pants down.”

* * *

Beneath another city in a secret bunker a woman dressed in regal reds and orange like a living flame sat before her war council. At the other end of the room an aged man, her Chief Officer, nervously waited for her to ask for his report. She nodded.

“Tsarina.” The Officer bowed low, “The-” He took his time sharing the news, he was afraid of the backlash he would receive. The Tsarina had a reputation for shooting the messenger, “The Chancellor is dead.” The Officer winced in anticipation of the whip.

The Tasrina remained motionless and then she beamed, an ear-to-ear grin illuminating her face, “What excellent news. Rally the troops, raise the armies and crush those poisonous and greedy Cold Hands. The Ring is ours gentlemen. The Ring is ours.”


Rules v0.8
Sample Turn (big file!)

LOWER INK Version

Low Ink Cards





Reference Boards


FULL PRINT Version










LEGACY In-spansion

Legacy Rules

Print the following on full-sheet Label paper:





Design Notes
This one (quite obviously I think) spawned by looking over the components combined with a few interesting mechanics I thought up instinctively (I particularly like the Action playing mechanics). Also Risk: Legacy (the concept) was a huge inspiration for the Legacy Inspansion which I take now to be an essential part of the game's experience.
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Jake Staines
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
I'll look forward to giving this one a go!

The action cards and in particular the variable objectives look interesting - I must admit, I'd always expected games based on this art to have a fairly fixed set of objectives, don't know why!
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Jessey
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
One of the things about Nexus Ops that always appealed to me is the variable objectives, so it's something I try and utilize where I can.

I'm glad someone is looking forward to trying this out! I'm sure v0.1 is horribly broken

I am personally excited to get these components done and give it a whirl because not only do I think there's a lot of interesting and varied decisions/strategies to take but I am also concerned about the nearly completely deterministic Battle rules (except for getting surprised by a Reaction you should be able to quickly determine if you will win or lose a Battle before committing). I hope that the rest of the decision points are deep enough to make this not an issue (I know wargames tend to use dice to build uncertainty, but I just don't like dice ).

Current thoughts are to have the Armies stack like they do in Titan (where you stack the Units and your opponent only knows 2 things, what the top unit is and the height of the stack. Until it comes time to do Battle you have only a vague idea of what you're getting into).

Anyway, back to work with me!
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Nate K
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Are Action cards different from Objective cards? How many Action cards do players start with?
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Nate K
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Also, I like how you're handling Actions. You give yourself three options for the turn, but you're only going to be able to use two of them (unless you have a Reaction), so you have to pay attention to what the other players are doing. You also have to consider which cards to keep in your hand to fight for priority.
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Jessey
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
kurthl33t wrote:
Are Action cards different from Objective cards? How many Action cards do players start with?


Yes they are different and you begin with all of the Action cards. The reason they are cards instead of just a list is to facilitate the first two phases.
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Nate K
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Candi wrote:
kurthl33t wrote:
Are Action cards different from Objective cards? How many Action cards do players start with?


Yes they are different and you begin with all of the Action cards. The reason they are cards instead of just a list is to facilitate the first two phases.


Ah, okay, I get it. I just needed to read a bit further into the rules. You may want to mention this during the Setup, though. "Each player gets one copy of all Action cards" or something.
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
kurthl33t wrote:
Candi wrote:
kurthl33t wrote:
Are Action cards different from Objective cards? How many Action cards do players start with?


Yes they are different and you begin with all of the Action cards. The reason they are cards instead of just a list is to facilitate the first two phases.


Ah, okay, I get it. I just needed to read a bit further into the rules. You may want to mention this during the Setup, though. "Each player gets one copy of all Action cards" or something.


Done and done, I actually have a v0.3 to upload already (some clarifications about Exhausting were added and restricting Reactions to 1/turn).
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
First run at an Action card:



The big white space is either placeholder for Art (which I definitely cannot supply) or can be squished away to make the Action cards something like 1.5"x3.5" 'squished cards'.... Or filled with something that I do not know (perhaps a diagram of the effect? In this case 2 Grey 'generic tokens' an arrow and 2 Resource tokens being placed on a Production track?)

Thoughts/Opinions?

EDIT: Added a sample of what the 'helpful imagery' might look like.

 
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Nate K
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
I dig the helpful imagery!
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Looks really interesting. Quick comments:

Several places in the rules sound like there can be more than 2 players, yet the pieces and the board setup really seem to indicate 2-player only. For instance when figuring out who goes first, I believe it says 'all players' when it would be more clear to say 'both players'.

Battle resolution was a bit unclear to me, particularly retreating. Does that mean any 'retreated' units go back into the production pile so you'll have to rebuild them?

Also, you mention 'exhausting' units; I assume that means the tokens are double-sided. Might want to clarify that in some Construction directions (maybe just in white space on the components?)

Looks like an interesting idea, though. Actions remind me of Battle for Armageddon. Can't wait to see final version.
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
solclaim wrote:
Several places in the rules sound like there can be more than 2 players, yet the pieces and the board setup really seem to indicate 2-player only. For instance when figuring out who goes first, I believe it says 'all players' when it would be more clear to say 'both players'.


I wrote it that way intentionally, although indeed at the moment it is a 2 player game. Once I get the mechanics ironed out I intend to try and extend it to 3 or even 4 players (hopefully the map won't be too congested). If it doesn't work out I'll rewrite the rules to account for that.

Quote:
Battle resolution was a bit unclear to me, particularly retreating. Does that mean any 'retreated' units go back into the production pile so you'll have to rebuild them?


The idea is that Retreating units are redeployed (the reason I said put them on the bottom of your Production track was because Deployment happens soon after Battle resolution so it was just adding the Units to the pile of newly built units.)

That may be confusing so I need to 1) Reword that and not reference Production and 2) Include a section to explicitly cover the Production track.

Quote:
Also, you mention 'exhausting' units; I assume that means the tokens are double-sided. Might want to clarify that in some Construction directions (maybe just in white space on the components?)


Tokens are double sided. I intend to include a 'how-to' for construction, but since I haven't finished the components haven't gotten that far (working on cards).
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Well, drat. Was hoping I had pointed out some gaping holes in your plan, thus earning your eternal gratitude. Turns out you'd already thought of all of it.

Actually, that's probably a good thing. Carry on. laugh
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Well, you did indicate a portion of the rules that could be cleared up. Also, people posting in this thread keeps me on task and motivated to work on the game - which is a really good thing!

In other news, third component sheet is up - this one has the remainder of the tokens as well as the first 3 of the Action cards (in two different colours, I figured a bit of 'player specific flair' was a good thing ).
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Welcome to the contest.
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Jessey
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
*PHEW*!

Finally done first draft of components (except for a reference board but that's something you can play without since the Unit costs are in the rules).

Now onto clearing up those previously established rules ambiguities and printing it!
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Nate K
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
So after I PLAY or CLAIM an Objective, I can draw a new one at the end of the turn, during Clean Up? Excellent. I was a little worried when I reread the rules, because it takes 7 Victory Points to win. Each player only starts with 3 Objectives, and that might only be 3 Victory Points.
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
That is exactly it and why!

With the exception of completing Control the Reactor each player.needs about 4 objectives to win. I do, howeve need to add a rule about CLAIMing objecrives you already have (it will be prohibited, but during Clean Up you will be able to reveal that you have a duplicate then draw.a replacement and shuffle.it back imto the draw pile.
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Nate K
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Oh, yeah, I hadn't even thought of the duplicates problem. Good catch.
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
First Playtest

As expected sweeping changes

First, the BAD:

1. Trap! is too powerful as it is. There's no reason not to prepare it if you expect the Enemy to Advance. It will be changed to trigger only when an Enemy Moves into a City Region you control.

2. A bigger problem that the change to Trap! is partly to address is the huge defender advantage because all Reaction trigger for defense, meaning that if you don't have Battle Actions to arm yourself with then you cannot do much as an Attacker except amass well beyond overwhelming force. This takes away from the game because consequently battle actions and reactions become irrelevant as you only attack when you'll win regardless of what happens. Change: Reactions count against your 1 Battle action per battle. Perhaps overkill, but it at least pushes the interaction in the right direction.

3. The Bridges to the Reactor's movement restriction makes controlling the Reactor for 3 consecutive turns quite easy if you get there fast enough. As such I've decided to remove the movement lock on the bridges.

4. Public Opinion was never used. Not sure what to do here, Bomber's are freaking awesome but neither player got past Tech level 2 (mostly because of Trap! being too good and Blue player being able to snag Control the Reactor very quickly and without opposition). That it takes an Action to increase Public Opinion is a problem, while that sets you up to get access to better units - you already have to spend actions to Gather and Research to get better units. As far as priorities go, until you get Tech 3, Public Opinion means squat! Change: Before any player takes Actions each player has the option to Exhaust N of their units, where N is their current Public Opinion. If they do, increase their Public Opinion.

Now, the GOOD (with some changes too):

1. Combat is 99% about staging. You carefully move your troops, slip through cracks and position yourself in preparation for an alpha strike on your target. While a lack of interactivity was a problem (see points 1 and 2 above), the overall feel of it was good. It felt like the most important thing was positioning and board control.

2. Battle for the Reactor was tense (well, for Red, Blue already had the VP at that point) and very back and forth. The resources red diverted to taking the Reactor is what put Blue in the position to win (no real Red threat or control on the rest of the board as they all struggled to control the Reactor). And Tactical Maneouvering + Advance is a really effective way to set yourself up then strike.

Given these things I think I am either going to a) have the Reactor Control VP shuffled into the bottom half of the deck because both players starting with it kind of directed the game to be about the Reactor Race; b) have Reactor Control be a global VP not unlike Settlers Longest Road. Whoever Controls the Reactor is considered to have +1 VP; c) leave Control the Reactor as is, except make it a Public VP that everyone is fighting for and there is only one copy of.
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
A few more notes:

1. Researching takes too many Actions and leads to stall points where both players are just researching and moving but not really doing anything interesting. Research should allow for escalation to a point where the game moves faster, and is more cutthroat (which Air units very much facilitate as nearly Trump cards). To fix this I'm changing Research to be AND instead of OR, so when you use it you Exhaust 2 Units then place a Science on the Production track and if you have Science you may spend it to Research 1 Tech.

2. Something that nearly came up was what to do when you don't control any cities but have stuff that you need to Deploy. My answer will be 'You don't Deploy'. The tokens you would Deploy remain on the production track until next Clean Up phase. This will help the possible problem of city sites not being valuable except for one Objective card.

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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Triple Post: Rules v0.5 up, changes from above as well as clarifications are included.

Also, one final rule change, we found cities control to be something players only cared about when they had the relevant VP. Otherwise you just want to control 3 cities, a central one far away from the opponent to drop Resources into and one in each direction from there to spawn your units in for attacking. So, to fix this, during Clean Up you get free Resources/Science added to your production track based on your City control.

Regarding Control the Reactor I'm trying the 'shuffle them into bottom 8' and see how that goes.
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Quadruple post!

Disclaimer: I've recently been introduced to the concept of Risk: Legacy.

Related Poll:

Poll
Should I add Risk: Legacy elements to Rise of Rebels (permanent changes to the board and factions based on player choices post-game):
Yes - Go for it!
Maybe - Tell me more
No - Don't bother
      10 answers
Poll created by Candi
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Nate K
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
I went with "No - Don't bother" with the caveat that you should make the game you want to make. But the idea of permanent changes to the game play is frightening to someone who is constantly introducing people to games they have never played. "So, the game used to play like this, but now there's this new rule that...."
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
kurthl33t wrote:
I went with "No - Don't bother" with the caveat that you should make the game you want to make. But the idea of permanent changes to the game play is frightening to someone who is constantly introducing people to games they have never played. "So, the game used to play like this, but now there's this new rule that...."


Totally fair. The mods were definitely not going to be as sweeping as what Legacy seems to contain, on the other hand the things I was thinking of would increase property value of certain locations and personalize the starting setup of each of the 2 Factions.

There's no reason I can't just put the marks on the map to make certain cities have different buffs to make interesting the territory war and no reason why I can't add an "Variants" that includes rules for variable starting set up (start with 1 level 1 Technology of your choice, a choice of different sets of units and resources being on the production track and a choice of which units to use for your starting Deployment).

EDIT: Examples of board mods I was thinking of:
-Regions that during Clean Up have 1 Resource placed on them if they didn't have any.
-Regions that begin the game with 1 Science token in them
-Regions that provide +1 power to a specific faction
-Regions which count as +1 VP if you control all 3 of them
-Regions which force you to Exhaust 1 Unit during Clean Up
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