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Subject: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland] rss

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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
A 50/50 vote (of my 4 voters, you folks rock ), inclines me to explain more. So coming off what I explained above here was the idea:

At the end of the game the winning player selects and places 1 sticker on a Region of their choice with one of the following effects:

-Regions that during Clean Up have 1 Resource placed on them if they didn't have any.
-Regions that begin the game with 1 Science token in them
-Regions that provide +1 power to a specific faction
-Regions which count as +1 VP if you control all 3 of them
-Regions which force you to Exhaust 1 Unit during Clean Up

The losing player gets to modify their Faction based on a Faction mod chart. The chart would indicate via rows a series of options that you can pick from. After picking off the top row your cross it out. The end result would be that after say 6 losses you would have finished customizing your faction. At this point there is no further changes applied by the loser to their Faction.

Likewise there is an upper limit on the number of Region modifiers. So that after X games the board and factions would be distinct from every other game out there.
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Ok, I've decided to include (perhaps not for the contest if time is not forgiving and it is shaping up not to be, but at the very least as an included expansion if the game turns out favourably) a Legacy rule set (for doing the Risk: Legacy thing with permanent changes to the board and factions).

That aside, changes to current version:

1) The Declaration segment is presently very boring. Even though there is something to be said for 'faking out' the opponent and not revealing Trap even if you didn't play it, most of the time if you didn't play Trap you need/want to go first more than you want to 'fake them out'. So there's no real strategy or mind games here. Proposed change:

The Action you Ante for Declaration is not returned to your hand during Clean Up and instead is returned during next turns Clean Up.

The idea is that whatever you Declare for Priority is not available to you as an action on the following turn.

2) I'm changing the Rector Control VP card into a permanent available VP. So the card will be removed and instead During Clean up if you control the reactor (IE: have at least 1 Unit which is not exhausted occupying it) then you have +2 VP. So the Reactor is a static 2 VP that will change hands and be heavily fought over once a player hits 5 VP and thus could win by securing the Reactor.

3) Advance is the only way to instigate a battle, but it encourages you to pile all of your attacking units in one place, heavily telegraphing the attack and thus informing your opponent about when it is best to play Trap or Entrenched. A major change to Advance to allow more fluid movement:

Advance: Choose a target Region. You may move any number of Units you control as long as their movement ends in the chosen Region.

In other news, this weekend I am going to aspire to have the 'lower ink' option available (cards will be plain text, but the board and tokens will still be full colour :S), as well as hopefully update the shiny components to reflect the sweeping changes the game has undergone since I made them.
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Jake Staines
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Candi wrote:

In other news, this weekend I am going to aspire to have the 'lower ink' option available (cards will be plain text, but the board and tokens will still be full colour :S)


Apologies for the lack of a proper low-ink board, but as it goes - I did try and make it possible to make a version of the board that was easier on the cartridges; if you open the PSD file and turn off the 'Terrain' and 'Space' layers, leaving the 'Faded Terrain' and 'White BG' layers turned on, it'll use much less ink and hopefully still be perfectly readable. Even just turning the 'space' layer off makes a big difference!
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Bichatse wrote:
Candi wrote:

In other news, this weekend I am going to aspire to have the 'lower ink' option available (cards will be plain text, but the board and tokens will still be full colour :S)


Apologies for the lack of a proper low-ink board, but as it goes - I did try and make it possible to make a version of the board that was easier on the cartridges; if you open the PSD file and turn off the 'Terrain' and 'Space' layers, leaving the 'Faded Terrain' and 'White BG' layers turned on, it'll use much less ink and hopefully still be perfectly readable. Even just turning the 'space' layer off makes a big difference!


You're absolutely right (of course you are), and I will set about to have that made today.

Yesterday I did post a rules update (v0.5) which covers everything I've noted to date (no Legacy stuff yet) and also made low-ink cards (which will be the official cards until the cards are official because it takes a good bit of time to make the fancy cards).
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Done! Low Ink version is really a low ink version, thanks to the graphics designer, Jake, for explaining how I could make a less-toner-gobbling board

Now, I would like to humbly request for some external testing. I've been testing it myself (against myself) and am planning on getting this out with a friend or two, but I would really benefit from having someone who isn't me "blind-testing" it. This will help reveal places where the rules are unclear and also identify different balance/gameplay problems that I am not running up against because I think like me.

I'll offer up 5GG to anyone who provides a 'Session Report', even if you just do a solo session and play against yourself (+1GG for each additional report beyond your first!).


Above and beyond the contest, I want to make this game good enough that I will be confident having a BGG entry for it (something I've never done, even though I've entered many contests before and even produced some decent results). Some external testing will go a long way!

Furthermore, I need to get the base game tightened up before I work out the '3-4p Expansion' and 'Legacy Expansion'.
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Jake Staines
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Candi wrote:

Now, I would like to humbly request for some external testing.


Once I finish cutting all the counters, I'll give it a go! ;-) Unfortunately I have trouble with paper counters so I have to cut through lots of board...

(It does seem that contest entries are getting less third-party playtesting this time around, though... I wonder, has it been the same since the split from the Board Game Design forum, or is it this contest in particular? It's the first one I've had time to participate in - joining in or playing games from - since the forum was split.)
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Oh, on the counters, it was not an accident that there are upside down ones below each. That's because they are intended to be double sided and the upside down token below each token is it's back.

Ideally, if you don't mount on matte-board and just print on plain paper or cardstock you can just fold and glue along that line.

The great news is that I am going to try my hardest not to modify the token values (health/power of each unit) or the token counts. And the game board won't change, so the only 'colour' portions of low ink should be the same right through to the final version

--

Also, I do note the lack of third-party play testing from my last contest (which was almost a year ago now). EDIT: On the other hand, not many of the entries are playable - so few of us actually have rules and components available.
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Bichatse wrote:


(It does seem that contest entries are getting less third-party playtesting this time around, though... I wonder, has it been the same since the split from the Board Game Design forum, or is it this contest in particular? It's the first one I've had time to participate in - joining in or playing games from - since the forum was split.)


I think it's a combination of factors:

--More component-heavy submissions
--"Burnout" from those who have already put together a lot of games over the last few months
--Business with other things (this is my major problem--damn school getting in the way of my hobby!)
--Less enthusiasm for some of the submissions (it seems like there used to be more in-depth discussions about the submissions, even from people who had only read the rules)
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
kurthl33t wrote:
Bichatse wrote:


(It does seem that contest entries are getting less third-party playtesting this time around, though... I wonder, has it been the same since the split from the Board Game Design forum, or is it this contest in particular? It's the first one I've had time to participate in - joining in or playing games from - since the forum was split.)


I think it's a combination of factors:

--More component-heavy submissions
--"Burnout" from those who have already put together a lot of games over the last few months
--Business with other things (this is my major problem--damn school getting in the way of my hobby!)
--Less enthusiasm for some of the submissions (it seems like there used to be more in-depth discussions about the submissions, even from people who had only read the rules)



I would have printed out most of the PNP entries for previous competitions. This one has not been well advertised. I only saw it by accident.I am unsure of the actual rules and entries and am just picking up the posts with the work in progress threads rather than the competition thread. I am sure most of the pnp crowd have not seen it.
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Jake Staines
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Varduk wrote:

This one has not been well advertised. I only saw it by accident.


Out of interest, where would you have expected it to be advertised? I remember it wasn't posted to the Contest Subscription Thread until I posted there about the second phase starting, but other than that I'm not sure where else it should have been mentioned?

Bearing in mind that the reason the Design Contests forum was split from the Board Game Design forum - as I understand it - was that there were people in there who didn't like seeing all the contest stuff, so I'm not sure how politic it is to put notices in there about contests...
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Hit a road block and looking for ideas:

Length
Here's the main problem, the game is too slow! There are interesting decisions all over the place but it's just a slow and steady crawl - this is probably due to the way Production works however I don't think it needs to be this way. On the other hand I could just be agonizing over something that just isn't a worry, others having played might help here. Maybe the pacing is ok for a 'war-like' game. I dunno.

Priority
The bigger problem is Priority and determining who goes first. There's still a frequent number of ties so I tried something else:

Red starts with the 'Priority Token'. The player with the PT goes first. During Declaration a player who does not have PT may ante an Action card. Player with PT may then choose to Ante action cards with total higher priority. This continues back and forth until one player declines. The winner takes the PT and places their Ante cards to the side, these cards are not returned to their hand at the end of this turn and instead are returned at the end of next turn.

It feels a bit clunky but it is at least interesting and leads to the occasional spit-fight as you fight over the ability to go first for a key turn.

Heroes
Why bother? They're awesome accelerators, but the Production delay makes them less desirable than good pure militant power. New change, Heroes are Deployed the turn they are purchased - no production delay!

Various VP Issues
There are various VP issues. Majority Control is SUPER hard and will be upgraded to be worth 3 VP instead of 2. Also, sometimes you get stuck with three cards that just suck (like Strike at the Heart and Anti-Air when your opponent just isn't buying Heroes or Air Units!) so now everyone will have access to the following rulebook action:

Revise Plans: Discard one of your face-down action cards and any number of Objective Cards. Draw Objective Cards until you have 3 in hand.

Science!
It's slow without the Hero accelerator (which should be helped with the Hero change). I am going to adjust the Techs a tiny bit. Pincer Attack will be removed, War Factory and Militarized Airport will be reduced a level (to 1 and 2 respectively). A new level 3 tech will be designed to fill the void previously occupied by the airport. Also level 3 techs are getting upgraded because it takes a lot of effort and time to get to level 3 so they will be "game-breakingly" good.
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Nigel Swan
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Bichatse wrote:
Varduk wrote:

This one has not been well advertised. I only saw it by accident.


Out of interest, where would you have expected it to be advertised? I remember it wasn't posted to the Contest Subscription Thread until I posted there about the second phase starting, but other than that I'm not sure where else it should have been mentioned?

Bearing in mind that the reason the Design Contests forum was split from the Board Game Design forum - as I understand it - was that there were people in there who didn't like seeing all the contest stuff, so I'm not sure how politic it is to put notices in there about contests...


There are a few geek lists that are monitored by the pnp guys. One is what print and play game are you crafting or planning this month and the current month. Posting a new game on to the print and play listings will bring it to the attention of the bgg users as well.
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Nigel Swan
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
My subscription has just told me Zombies and Zeppelins has been posted to the listing of games to print and play. Hopefully more attention will be given to it now.
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Joe Mucchiello
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Varduk wrote:
There are a few geek lists that are monitored by the pnp guys. One is what print and play game are you crafting or planning this month and the current month. Posting a new game on to the print and play listings will bring it to the attention of the bgg users as well.

I didn't think to post anything to PnP lists because this is NOT strictly a PnP design contest. There is no requirement that the resulting entries be easy to PnP.

This is the main contest thread: Art & Game Contest Rules and Entry Thread
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
New Low-Ink cards file. Some small changes:

1. I made a card for Control the Reactor VP. Though it stays in play it's nice to have.

2. Tech cards are revised. Harvesting Facility and Science officer got a buff to both help make them worthwhile and also offset the 'samey' feel between them and Boot Camp. Also a new level 3 tech, Immediately Deployment was revised (possibly too good now!) and Heavy Machine Guns now make Infantry count as Vehicles for the purposes of Battle (effect is removing the Vehicle HP bonus when facing Infantry).

3. New Action card, a once per game Mulligan card. This will replace the previously instated rulebook Action. As a bonus, if you don't think you'll need it it has 10 Priority and can be used as a once per game "gimme first player!"

Also, there's a player reference board up (went up yesterday, I didn't make a note though).

Today I am revising the rules to accommodate all of the changes that I haven't yet, I'm going to reprint my set (in low ink as the full colour isn't correct anymore) and run a few more tests before busting it out with some friends towards the end of the week! Plan is to get the 'Contest Final' art done by Monday since next week is too hectic for me to have time before the contest closes

Worst case, low-ink is all there is (which is not the end of the world as far as PnP'ers are concerned - especially with contest entries ).
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Jake Staines
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Candi wrote:

Plan is to get the 'Contest Final' art done by Monday since next week is too hectic for me to have time before the contest closes


(Thanks for posting this, by the way - I've been thinking for the last month that the deadline was the 15th of March, for some reason...!)
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Rules v0.7 are up now, this rule set is a lot cleaner and easier to read than prior rules. And is also, finally, fully up to date.

Consume and enjoy!
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Legacy Rules are started. For those interested I have posted the rulebook so far (only covers Game 1 and Game 2 and nothing about Faction customization).

Legacy Rules

Do note that it presently says 15 Games, but that is a placeholder. I'm actually ball-parking it at 7 plus X where X is the number it takes for both players to lose 5 games (which would result in the factions being fully modded).

So 7 Victories worth of board mods and 5 Losses worth of Faction mods.

Even if the game itself doesn't turn out to be stellar, I think this 'feature' is actually shaping up to be awesome. But what do I know, I am the one who made it, of course I think it's cool
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Candi wrote:
Legacy Rules are started. For those interested I have posted the rulebook so far (only covers Game 1 and Game 2 and nothing about Faction customization).

Legacy Rules

Do note that it presently says 15 Games, but that is a placeholder. I'm actually ball-parking it at 7 plus X where X is the number it takes for both players to lose 5 games (which would result in the factions being fully modded).

So 7 Victories worth of board mods and 5 Losses worth of Faction mods.

Even if the game itself doesn't turn out to be stellar, I think this 'feature' is actually shaping up to be awesome. But what do I know, I am the one who made it, of course I think it's cool


That's... really kind of cool. There's much more of an overarching story this way. I'm extremely curious to see what else you come up with for the Legacy rules.
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Candi wrote:

I think this 'feature' is actually shaping up to be awesome.


Certainly stuff like that has a fair chance at awesomeness! I like the look of a narrative as the games go by, my main concern with this kind of thing is just my OCD side wanting to keep everything shiny and clean and new. Still, I expect I'd have less trouble with the concept with a PnP game that I could just print off another board for if I wanted.

I would suggest it might be worth having a separate 'bombed' sticker to go over a city rather than a patch of grass, though - grass would look a bit out of place in the icy regions on the top of the board...! ;-)


How do you go about playtesting something like this? I mean - some changes might not have their impact properly felt until some games in the future...
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Bichatse wrote:

I would suggest it might be worth having a separate 'bombed' sticker to go over a city rather than a patch of grass, though - grass would look a bit out of place in the icy regions on the top of the board...! ;-)


Yea, I am trying to make a 'blown up' city sticker out of one of the cities... but my skills at GIMP are not up to par yet. Am trying but the 'plain grass' is a place holder.

Quote:
How do you go about playtesting something like this? I mean - some changes might not have their impact properly felt until some games in the future...


I'll be honest, I play through it a couple of times and as long as nothing is hugely imbalanced I call it good If this was a professional game the answer is obsessive blind play testing.

Also, this is why I am shooting for 7 games (and not something like 15!)
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Candi wrote:

Yea, I am trying to make a 'blown up' city sticker out of one of the cities... but my skills at GIMP are not up to par yet. Am trying but the 'plain grass' is a place holder.


I'd offer to help, but I don't think I'm allowed to! ;-)
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Bichatse wrote:
Candi wrote:

Yea, I am trying to make a 'blown up' city sticker out of one of the cities... but my skills at GIMP are not up to par yet. Am trying but the 'plain grass' is a place holder.


I'd offer to help, but I don't think I'm allowed to! ;-)


Yea, the contest prohibits your help

On the other hand, post contest, if the game isn't awful, I'd love to have help making it less, err... what it is
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Legacy Rules updated with Game 3 and 4 for those reading it

Also, regarding Legacy balance. Here's the trick, the Game results and map changes are balanced by the Deployment rules. Players have (sort of) equal opportunity to Deploy their starting units where they see fit. The only discrepancy is Blue gets to go first in Deployment. But once there are more interesting locations even then it's not a big deal.

Also, small rules update, no limit on reactions/turn. So you can limit your options to face down say Entrenched and Trap! Then reveal both on the same Trigger. This is because it sometimes is the only way to save yourself
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Re: WIP: A&G [Game] - Rise of Rebels [Mutiny on the Rutland]
Legacy Rules done (well, done pending horrible brokenness revealed by a test run). I make no promises on getting the sticker sheet made before the deadline since next I need to focus on remaking the ink-unfriendly version of the cards and technology tokens.
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