fightcitymayor
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
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1) I haven't warmed to the name of the set. Usually I like the names of the sets, this one seems generic, especially for a 2-word set name.
2) It has a little bit of the "middle-set syndrome" where it continues a lot of the themes from Innistrad without staking out much new ground.
3) It definitely lets you know that this block was a "top-down" thought process, as a lot of the set theme of "humans getting their collective asses beat" (Rosewater declared this set was where he wanted to convey the idea that humanity is losing and desperate) does come through in kind of a low-level chaotic kinda way, without relying on a host of intricate mechanics to get in the way of the theme.
3b) But didn't we just kinda do this in the Scars Of Mirrodin block? Except then it was 1)Aggressive invasion 2)Humans fight back 3)Humans lose and are exterminated/enslaved. We know from the title of the 3rd set ("Avacyn Restored") that this block will result in triumph for the smoothskins.
4) So far, I think this block would be really good for Magic noobs. Like I said, the idea of the block being highly thematic and top-down means an intuitive sense of what the tribes will do and how the colors will perform. Obviously I loved Ravnica, and it's a great noob set too, but in the Innistrad block there aren't as many factions to keep track of or story-points to get lost in. So far in Innistrad/Dark Ascension it's pretty much: Humans lose their protector and get whomped on by various monsters that the average person can relate to.
5) I like it.
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Brett Orr
United States
Southlake
Texas
I hunger!!!
Galactus wants to know if you have been Naughty or Nice
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fightcitymayor wrote: 5) I like it.
This. It is not as good as Ravnica which might be the best block ever. It still feels better than any of the recent releases. I was highly skeptical of Innistrad when it was announced, but I have been surprised at how well it works. Only block cube I have worked on building since Ravnica.
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fightcitymayor
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
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molitor4 wrote: It is not as good as Ravnica which might be the best block ever. This is my 1st rule of Magic: All sets must bow to Ravnica.
molitor4 wrote: It still feels better than any of the recent releases. It does. Easy to get into, easy to play, easy to identify with the struggles going on. Nothing too wacky or out-of-the-ordinary. A total pendulum swing away from the Scars block. Although to be fair to Scars block, once I got past the theme and some of the layered mechanics, I liked it more than I thought I would. The one danger I see in Innistrad block long-term is it may be too easily accessible, at the risk of being shallow in the long-term.
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Tommy Occhipinti
United States
Irvine
California
Magic Fanboy
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1) I haven't gotten to play with Dark Ascension yet, but I'm quite excited about how it develops the block overall.
2) I really liked Innistrad draft overall, it is one of the most synergy based formats we've had. The thing I don't like about it is that the dominant deck, GW, has no synergies at all. I watch a lot of draft videos, and there is nothing more boring than watching someone draft GW.
3) I loved the Spider Spawning deck, but it got a bit annoying once everyone started doing it. I think it is evidence that this is a very deep draft format, though. I'm glad the new set won't allow it to happen super often, but also glad I'll still get to see some huge Spider Spawnings resolved.
4) Curses are dumb. The idea is great, but now that we've seen all of them, I wish they had not wasted their time and the precious card slots on this sludge.
5) I wish there had been more "when this transforms" triggers on werewolves. They are a neat idea.
6) I'm not as optimistic as you are that Avacyn Restored means things go well for the humans. Avacyn is a shepherd designed by Sorin to make sure that the vampires don't eat the humans too quickly, but pace themselves. Her coming back doesn't necessarily spell happy times.
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Pete Lane
United States
Saint Paul
Minnesota
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I don't mind it as a set, and really feel we'll have some cards to shake our fists at a year from now. Really though I feel this set more than many others recently is much more of a "add to limited" than in previous years. It's fun, but I didn't find myself wanting to run out and buy a ton. IN fact I think this is the first time in ages I haven't sunk more than $25 into singles.
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Tommy Occhipinti
United States
Irvine
California
Magic Fanboy
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stagger lee wrote: I don't mind it as a set, and really feel we'll have some cards to shake our fists at a year from now. Really though I feel this set more than many others recently is much more of a "add to limited" than in previous years. It's fun, but I didn't find myself wanting to run out and buy a ton. IN fact I think this is the first time in ages I haven't sunk more than $25 into singles.
For me, Magic is limited, so that is all I'm ever looking for. I can see how constructed players would be less excited, but constructed is so difficult to analyze I'm sure some sleepers will shoot up in value after PT Dark Ascension.
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Royce Last name
United States
Houston
Texas
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I'm still new to Magic (a year or so) and am a big fan of Innistrad, I like the Day/Night abilities and the overall theme. I think it was put together really well and each color is represented like they should. Dark Ascension is an add on and in that aspect it's a little disappointing. The best additions are Sorin, Undying, and the Captains. They all feel and play like they should. There are cats/dogs within the Innistrad/Dark Ascension set which are just kind of odd and almost funny. Overall I don't see Dark Ascension adding too much to Innistrad. The Captains are great and probably the best cards in the set (for a player like me) because they add more flavor to the game and it feels more like a battle. Undying is neat too but not nearly as good as Flashback. Flashback has so many combos that work great together.
Overall I bought a FatPack and was happy with it but probably won't buy any more. It's okay but seems more like "a few more cards that we left out of Innistrad". I understand it is part of the block and is supposed to be more of an add on but it would be great to have a little more separation.
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Todd Pytel
United States
Chicago
Illinois
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Like Tommy, for me, Magic is Limited. And I agree with all of his comments almost exactly. DKA seems to be primarily more of the same in Limited, but that's just fine because ISD was a great set to draft. I would add that GW looks to get a bit weaker in DKA/ISD/ISD if only because it gets one less pack of Travel Preps, Darkthicket Wolves, etc. to work with. I also don't mind lowering the probability of facing UGb self-mill, looping infinite Memory's Journey into Runic Repetition into Gnaw to the Bone, etc. because those decks are *super* annoying to play against when they're good. But ultimately I'm glad they're possible. I think both Red and Black get stronger creatures in the DKA pack, which is welcome. And WB tokens, while remotely possible in triple ISD, should be more regularly achievable now. Basically, DKA just looks like it's going to diversify and balance the Limited field, without completely upending it the way MBS and especially NPH did to Scars. That sounds great to me.
I'm also not convinced that Avacyn getting Restored is going to be all roses. After all, she's locked in the Helvault with all the demons of Innistrad's past at the moment. Presumably they're going to escape along with her. I can't imagine Wizards is just going to repeat the basic "99% of humanity dies" storyline of NPH - the designers don't seem that lazy. But there's plenty of room for creativity in between utter apocalypse and triumphant restoration.
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Tommy Occhipinti
United States
Irvine
California
Magic Fanboy
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tppytel wrote:
I'm also not convinced that Avacyn getting Restored is going to be all roses. After all, she's locked in the Helvault with all the demons of Innistrad's past at the moment. Presumably they're going to escape along with her. I can't imagine Wizards is just going to repeat the basic "99% of humanity dies" storyline of NPH - the designers don't seem that lazy. But there's plenty of room for creativity in between utter apocalypse and triumphant restoration.
And don't forget, NPH ended on a hopeful note, with Venser giving his life to restore Karn's planeswalker spark, suggesting things will get better. I expect we'll go back to New Phyrexia later to see the rebellion with some new characters involved. Rosewater has explicitly said "This is not the end of the story."
I could see Innistrad having the opposite ending, with a mostly upbeat set with subtle hints of impending doom for humanity. For the record, I don't really care about the humans on Innistrad, where as I openly rooted for the Mirrans. I found the story of the previous block was a lot more gripping than this one.
I suppose I didn't mention how exciting I find Undying. What an awesome ability, and some of the cards that have it will be very exciting to play. I have a totally unhealthy obsession with card advantage, and wow does this give it! My inner draft nut would have preferred they bring back Unearth (aka Fleshback) so that self mill shenanigans would be even nuttier, but I can see why they didn't.
Also, how could I nut be excited that after this we get another Brian Tinsman draft alone set? If Avacyn Restored is as much better than ISD/DKA as Rise of the Eldrazi was to ZZW then Avacyn Restored draft will be the greatest game ever created.
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Todd Pytel
United States
Chicago
Illinois
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delirimouse wrote: I have a totally unhealthy obsession with card advantage
One of the things I find most interesting about ISD is how much it muddies the whole idea of card advantage. Pretty much every color and every archetype has several cards that, in a typical set, would just be absolutely bonzo for the card advantage they generate (via Flashback, tokens, draws, whatever). At the same time, you're often throwing cards into the yard, saccing creatures, or playing tempo games that make the actual value of cards much more difficult to evaluate. For example, bounce spells are niche cards for tempo decks in most environments, but Silent Departure (despite being Sorcery speed) is a huge card for nearly every deck that plays blue. Flashback is part of that, but it's also because of how bounce interacts with werewolves and with the largely aura-based removal available. Similarly, Faithless Looting is one of the most heralded cards of DKA, but it's at least superficially card-disadvantageous. In almost any other draft environment, it's pretty easy to keep track of how many cards you're ahead or behind your opponent, but in ISD that's basically impossible. That makes the game quite interesting.
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For me, Magic is cube, and Dark Ascension has been quite good for us cubers.
Also, I just really dig the theme, feel and atmosphere of Innistrad, and I think DKA does a fine job of building onto it.
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Tommy Occhipinti
United States
Irvine
California
Magic Fanboy
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Stormparkiet wrote: For me, Magic is cube, and Dark Ascension has been quite good for us cubers.
Also, I just really dig the theme, feel and atmosphere of Innistrad, and I think DKA does a fine job of building onto it.
Interesting... What has made your cube From Dark Ascension?
Here's my list of things I'd like to try out in my cube. I'm more optimistic about some than others (naturally)
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Thraben Doomsayer
Dungeon Geists
Burning Oil
Faithless Looting
Dawntreader Elk
Strangleroot Geist
Tracker's Insincts
Vorapede
Wolfbitten Captive
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
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delirimouse wrote: Interesting... What has made your cube From Dark Ascension?
Gravecrawler
Wolfbitten Captive
Strangleroot Geist
Vorapede
Faithless Looting
Markov Blademaster (more of a test case)
Torch Fiend
Hellrider
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
My cube currently contains 448 cards, so 10 includes isn't half bad for a small set and some of those make a big difference (Gravecrawler and Faithless Looting most notably). Sorin looks like a total beating, I'm guessing top 5 most powerful planeswalkers ever printed (in cube context). I'll probably test Dungeon Geists too, and for larger cubes there are other cards that can easily make the cut, like Loyal Cathar, Lingering Souls, Vault of the Archangel, Falkenrath Aristocrat, or Huntmaster of the Fells. Didn't even list them all.
Oh, one more thing: undying is just perfect for cube 
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Anthony DuLac
United States
Minnesota
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Way too new to the game to have anything really valuable or terribly insightful to add but I like this cycle (of course part of that is because everything is so fresh and shiny for me, I must admit).
I love Werewolves and wolves in general (of course) so this is a dream set for me to play with, thematically.
I had something weird happen recently with 2 open packs - one was from Innistrad and one from DKA. In an Innistrad pack, I got 2 Army of the Damned cards, 1 foil, 1 regular. In the DKA pack, opened about a week or so later, I got 2 Tree of Redemptions, 1 foil, 1 regular. LOL
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Todd Pytel
United States
Chicago
Illinois
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wytefang wrote: I had something weird happen recently with 2 open packs - one was from Innistrad and one from DKA. In an Innistrad pack, I got 2 Army of the Damned cards, 1 foil, 1 regular. In the DKA pack, opened about a week or so later, I got 2 Tree of Redemptions, 1 foil, 1 regular.
Yup, foils replace a common, so you can get double rares that way. Pretty wild to get not one, but two, double identical Mythics, though. The odds on that have to be astronomical.
On the topic of opening packs, we're done playing Sealed here and I'm going to be cracking the rest of my box to start building up a complete draft set. If other folks are interested in doing some trading of DKA rares, please GM me. I don't frequent a shop enough to do traditional trading, so I tend to end up with a few pretty good extras just sitting around. I'd rather trade them with BGG'ers for roughly equal value than sell to them the shop for buylist prices. I know I've got at least an extra Huntmaster of the Fells and a foil Thalia, Guardian of Thraben available, as well as some excellent ISD extras.
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Lexingtonian
United States
Unspecified
Massachusetts
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I haven't really been playing Magic long, so I can't comment on DKA mechanically compared to a lot of other sets, but thematically it's the best set I see out there. I like fantasy games but the horror slant in the Innistrad block feels more sophisticated than the usual fantasy stuff.
I suspect when Avacyn is restored there will be an unmanageable swarm of demons that will effectively destroy Innistrad.
This would be kind of like the demons in John Carmack and John Romero's D&D campaign that inspired the Doom video games.
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Cyrus the Great
United States
Lexington
Kentucky
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In INN and DKA, you can actually get THREE mythics, of which two are foil, in one pack (if you also have a foil mythic DFC.)
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I think they have been far too liberal with their award of "undying" which IMO should be limited to a few very scary, rare creatures.
You kind of lose your enthusiam for the hunt when you realise that half the things you kill are not going to be dead at all but still alive and more powerful.
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Tommy Occhipinti
United States
Irvine
California
Magic Fanboy
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eques wrote: I think they have been far too liberal with their award of "undying" which IMO should be limited to a few very scary, rare creatures.
You kind of lose your enthusiam for the hunt when you realise that half the things you kill are not going to be dead at all but still alive and more powerful.
I quite enjoy Undying, but it is quite board warping. Remember that when drafting you only have one pack of Dark Ascension to get Undying creatures from, so there aren't that many floating around (which is one reason it is very good Undying wasn't in Innistrad).
They have lately been experimenting with abilities in limited that make removal much worse. This is a very interesting thing for them to do, as removal has always been an easy first pick in the past, but a combination of making creatures more resilient and making removal weaker / more specific has been throwing a wrench in this.
In M12 they debuted Hexproof which prevents a creature from being targeted by opponent's spells/abilities. It is incredibly frustrating to play against, and the public perception has not been positive. R&D has admitted they are reconsidering its role in the future.
Undying is a lot like having Hexproof just one time, so it is far more interactive. Of course, as you say, it can be very frustrating to be staring down their undying creature and think "I could kill it once!" Even so, I'd take Undying over Hexproof any day.
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Cyrus the Great
United States
Lexington
Kentucky
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delirimouse wrote: eques wrote: I think they have been far too liberal with their award of "undying" which IMO should be limited to a few very scary, rare creatures.
You kind of lose your enthusiam for the hunt when you realise that half the things you kill are not going to be dead at all but still alive and more powerful. I quite enjoy Undying, but it is quite board warping. Remember that when drafting you only have one pack of Dark Ascension to get Undying creatures from, so there aren't that many floating around (which is one reason it is very good Undying wasn't in Innistrad). They have lately been experimenting with abilities in limited that make removal much worse. This is a very interesting thing for them to do, as removal has always been an easy first pick in the past, but a combination of making creatures more resilient and making removal weaker / more specific has been throwing a wrench in this. In M12 they debuted Hexproof which prevents a creature from being targeted by opponent's spells/abilities. It is incredibly frustrating to play against, and the public perception has not been positive. R&D has admitted they are reconsidering its role in the future. Undying is a lot like having Hexproof just one time, so it is far more interactive. Of course, as you say, it can be very frustrating to be staring down their undying creature and think "I could kill it once!" Even so, I'd take Undying over Hexproof any day.
I absolutely agree. One thing, though, is that while Hexproof is better on larger creatures, Undying is better on smaller ones. For instance, Gladecover Scout (G for a 1/1 with Hexproof) is much worse than Young Wolf (G for a 1/1 with Undying) but I might rather have, say, an 10/10 with Hexproof than Undying, just because the opponent is more likely to have (and use) two removal spells to deal with my guy than 10 power to kill him in combat. Of course, on anything 5/5 or smaller I would much rather have Undying, but when you pair Hexproof with Regenerate (Thrun, I'm looking at you) you get something very, very nasty.
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Adam Ruprecht
United States
Seattle
Washington
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Renaissance Man wrote: I absolutely agree. One thing, though, is that while Hexproof is better on larger creatures, Undying is better on smaller ones. For instance, Gladecover Scout (G for a 1/1 with Hexproof) is much worse than Young Wolf (G for a 1/1 with Undying) but I might rather have, say, an 10/10 with Hexproof than Undying, just because the opponent is more likely to have (and use) two removal spells to deal with my guy than 10 power to kill him in combat. Of course, on anything 5/5 or smaller I would much rather have Undying, but when you pair Hexproof with Regenerate (Thrun, I'm looking at you) you get something very, very nasty.
I agree with this in the abstract, but I think part of the current issue with Hexproof is that we're also in a period with unusually strong equipment. This is the major difference from Shroud - Invisible Stalker with Shroud would be almost totally irrelevant. It's the combination of inability to target with removal and inability to interact with creatures due to protection-granting Swords (in constructed) or just flat unblockability (in limited) that's incredibly frustrating. If, say, Scion of Oona had granted Hexproof instead of Shroud the difference would have been almost irrelevant, because Warhammer was the only decent equipment for that deck.
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Todd Pytel
United States
Chicago
Illinois
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delirimouse wrote: I'd take Undying over Hexproof any day.
Absolutely. I hate what Hexproof does to the game, especially casual Magic. Good to hear the devs are reconsidering it, at least - I hadn't heard that.
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I have to say I have never minded Hexproof (and it existed before M12 but without the name). For me it is just a weaker version of "Protection From" and one that adds extra spice to the game without being insurmountable. For example you can still kill them in combat, Day of Judgment, Call to the Grave basically anything that doesn't have the word "target" on the card.
Also, Hexproof is a good counterweight against what would otherwise be overpowerful fireball/shock/incinerate/doomblade decks.
Whereas it can be so disheartening to be up against 2 or 3 medium sized undying creatures.
I think undying is a good mechanism but think it should be limited to 2 or 3 rare creatures.
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Tommy Occhipinti
United States
Irvine
California
Magic Fanboy
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I didn't mind the old Hexproof guys from before Hexproof was keyworded. Troll Ascetic has always been a favorite. But now that it is keyworded they have felt like they have to use it, and it is a bit obnoxious, and leads to a lot of "all-in" decks where your opponent gambles that they can draw something with Hexproof and some gross equipment to put on it, and if they succeed you lose no matter what you do.
For what it's worth, Undying creatures can also be killed in combat (and almost all of the common/uncommon ones die very easily). What I usually find correct is to kill one in combat and then possibly use a spell when it comes back, but quite often you can kill the first form without even trading.
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