Andrew C
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The rules forums are one of the most useful tools on BGG. This is particularly true of posts with titles like, "Question about turn order after the initial bid" or "Question about movement when wounded" etc. It's rather less useful when the rules post title is "A Few Rules Questions" or "Questions after our first game."

In order to help make the rules forum more useful, can BGG add a feature that prompts a user for a descriptive title whenever they post a new thread to a rules forum? Just a pop-up message like, "Please use a descriptive title for your rules post that indicates the topic(s) of your question." (I'm sure that could be worded more clearly but you get the idea.)

Thanks
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Bryan Lane
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I'm not sure how that would work. It'd be really difficult to write some kind of algorithm to enforce such a thing. You could put up a little message asking them nicely, and remind them to create a new topic for each question, but you're still going to have people entering shabby titles and asking multiple questions per thread.

Call me a pessimist, but I've done a lot of geekmodding and people can't or don't read those guidelines either, sometimes after repeated rejections (even when providing a very clear reason for the rejection).
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Tomello Visello
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some people are well-behaved. Others are not. Straightjacket rules do not necessarily help those others become productive.


Sigh...
Oh, but otherwise a well-intentioned thought.

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Hugh G. Rection
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While I fully agree with you, Cleitus, this is pretty much wishful thinking.
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Steve Wardell
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I agree, thought I doubt it would make much of a difference. If you haven't seen Campaign to make the Rules Folders more useful - Adopt a Game!, sounds like something you might want to check out.
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James Ludlow
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The rules forums should be a full-on wiki so that we can cull the noise out of them and maintain a useful reference.

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There was a movement to re-title non useful rules subject lines. Not sure what happened to that.
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David Anderson
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jdludlow wrote:
The rules forums should be a full-on wiki so that we can cull the noise out of them and maintain a useful reference.



That is an excellent idea! We could basically make a fan made FAQ for every game.


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Steve Wardell
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turtleback wrote:

There was a movement to re-title non useful rules subject lines. Not sure what happened to that.


Khedron wrote:
I agree, thought I doubt it would make much of a difference. If you haven't seen Campaign to make the Rules Folders more useful - Adopt a Game!, sounds like something you might want to check out.
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Oh, there it is. blush
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Andrew C
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fastlane wrote:
I'm not sure how that would work. It'd be really difficult to write some kind of algorithm to enforce such a thing. You could put up a little message asking them nicely, and remind them to create a new topic for each question, but you're still going to have people entering shabby titles and asking multiple questions per thread.

Call me a pessimist, but I've done a lot of geekmodding and people can't or don't read those guidelines either, sometimes after repeated rejections (even when providing a very clear reason for the rejection).


I'm not suggesting the system, or any person, enforce anything, rather I think a pop-up message prompting the poster to enter a detailed title will solve most of this issue.

Of course they are free to ignore the message but I'm sure most folks neglect to put detailed titles simply because they haven't thought of the benefits, not because they are trying to be difficult.
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So some type of annoying message that makes it more likely for them to change a good subject line into a bad one out of spite?

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edit:
I do prefer good subject lines, but know enough people who would take such a message the wrong way, especially as an automated system.
 
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Kenny VenOsdel
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Cleitus the Black wrote:
The rules forums are one of the most useful tools on BGG. This is particularly true of posts with titles like, "Question about turn order after the initial bid" or "Question about movement when wounded" etc. It's rather less useful when the rules post title is "A Few Rules Questions" or "Questions after our first game."

In order to help make the rules forum more useful, can BGG add a feature that prompts a user for a descriptive title whenever they post a new thread to a rules forum? Just a pop-up message like, "Please use a descriptive title for your rules post that indicates the topic(s) of your question." (I'm sure that could be worded more clearly but you get the idea.)

Thanks


It's a hard sell but a good idea. I'm not sure how effective it would be either. The best way I think is to work at changing existing titles via "The Campaign" so people see good examples when they look at the rules forum in the first place.

Even more helpful is to word the rules question in a yes or no format and then answer it in the heading. Then people don't even have to read the thread!

Ex: "Can I use the same action 3 times? (answer - no)"
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Justus
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Cleitus the Black wrote:
fastlane wrote:
I'm not sure how that would work. It'd be really difficult to write some kind of algorithm to enforce such a thing. You could put up a little message asking them nicely, and remind them to create a new topic for each question, but you're still going to have people entering shabby titles and asking multiple questions per thread.

Call me a pessimist, but I've done a lot of geekmodding and people can't or don't read those guidelines either, sometimes after repeated rejections (even when providing a very clear reason for the rejection).


I'm not suggesting the system, or any person, enforce anything, rather I think a pop-up message prompting the poster to enter a detailed title will solve most of this issue. Of course they are free to ignore the message but I'm sure most folks neglect to put detailed titles simply because they haven't thought of the benefits, not because they are trying to be difficult.


I agree, this won't be the "perfect" fix, but I think a pop up will help remind people who are busy writing the body of the message that a good title is particularly important in the rules forum.

In fact, earlier this week I just did some title editing the other day on some Panic Station forum questions when I was looking through the rules questions and realized I had no idea wtf I was asking about the week before! In the moment you just want to get the question out and I think the geek adding a touch of friction would be a great reminder.
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Tomello Visello
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Cleitus the Black wrote:
...I think a pop-up message prompting the poster to enter a detailed title ...

Does anybody else see this as an excellent way to annoy both a) those who are already doing it right by being considerate and b) those who have no concerns at all about being that considerate ?

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Bruce Murphy
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turtleback wrote:
jdludlow wrote:
The rules forums should be a full-on wiki so that we can cull the noise out of them and maintain a useful reference.



That is an excellent idea! We could basically make a fan made FAQ for every game.


Go ahead. I do them myself from time to time.

http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/68431/games-with-a-rules-f...

B>
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James
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I think it's a terrific idea. Generally, I don't agree that a policy that impacts all is necessary for the problems of the few, but...

First, it's not "the few," but the majority of users who are posting subject lines like "quick question" lately. Second, most of these people seem to be very nice, reasonable people who have no idea the cumulative impact this has; I think many would consider changing the subject line, enough at least to warrant the change. Third, this would be a minor inconvenience at most for veterans who know the score. If one click when the occasion comes when you need to post a rules question is enough to annoy you, you're probably posting far too many rules questions a day.

Hey, I'd love a checkbox to come up with a reminder both for a descriptive subject line and to check to see if a question has already been asked in the forums (ex. "best Arkham expansion?") but I'd settle for the OP's suggestion being adopted.

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Bruce Murphy
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Get BGG to create some new admins who do a certain amount of curation of rules threads every week. Or have volunteers who can submit rules thread title fixes through geek mod for some small fee.

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Filip Lange
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TVis wrote:
Cleitus the Black wrote:
...I think a pop-up message prompting the poster to enter a detailed title ...

Does anybody else see this as an excellent way to annoy both a) those who are already doing it right by being considerate and b) those who have no concerns at all about being that considerate ?



I don't think a popup is necessary. Just write it somewhere visible, and we'll increase the number of useful titles significantly. After all, some people will ignore even a popup, so we can't get all of them regardless.
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Andrew C
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Skrynkelberg wrote:
TVis wrote:
Cleitus the Black wrote:
...I think a pop-up message prompting the poster to enter a detailed title ...

Does anybody else see this as an excellent way to annoy both a) those who are already doing it right by being considerate and b) those who have no concerns at all about being that considerate ?



I don't think a popup is necessary. Just write it somewhere visible, and we'll increase the number of useful titles significantly. After all, some people will ignore even a popup, so we can't get all of them regardless.


I agree. I wasn't really picturing a pop up that covered your post and you had to click through, that would be annoying. I simply meant that when you select "Rules" and the forurm input template came up, that somewhere above the templete, right above the subject line, it gave the reminder.

I'm a bit suprised that some folks think this would cause people to purposefully make vague headings out of spite. I personally think more than that of the BGG community.

It's not perfect, and it won't solve 100% of the problem, but then it seems to be very painless as well, particularly if it's not implemented like a pop up add you have to click out of. Even if only 20% of folks pay attention to it, the cost/benefit seems well worth it.
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A L D A R O N
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This (among many other issues) is why BGG should be focused on re-architecting the platform rather than fiddling with the "layout" of the site. And the solution isn't rocket science, in fact it's a solved problem that has three elements:
(1) A true rating system for contributions.
(2) A reputation system based on the rating system, with privileges accruing to reputation.
(3) The ability for users with increasing reputation to edit more and more of the site, including question titles.

It's been done literally hundreds of times. I don't know why we're stuck here in the dark ages.
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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I understand this concern entirely. However I'm not sure I agree with it. It's fine when a player has a rule question or two, then making a separate thread for each question is not an issue. But for example a player playing Pret A Porter had a total of 16 questions, which he broke down into three threads. Would 16 threads really be a good thing? Particularly if you are one of the people answering, that's a lot to keep track of and work with. Unfortunately there are games out there that just don't have good rules, and Pret A Porter is one of them.

What I would like is a way to flag questions that relate to issues that are not in the rules. Many rules questions are in fact answered in the rules, people just don't read the rules well enough (or sometimes it seems not at all) to see the answers. However there are a significant number of rules questions where the answer is not in the rules, and the designer/publisher/expert will make a call on the rules that would be really important to know. Too many times though, that call is buried deep within a lot of discussion, meaning that many/most players will not see the decision. One way is to do a better job of thumbing, but most rules questions aren't thumbed either way.

In a perfect world, BGG would have a volunteer rules moderator for the top 50 or so games who would have the authority to both change subjects/add threads and note when a significant game decision has been made. But I know that would be more work and I don't know if the system could even accommodate this. But it's really the best solution in my mind.
 
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Steve Wardell
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jschlickbernd wrote:
I understand this concern entirely. However I'm not sure I agree with it. It's fine when a player has a rule question or two, then making a separate thread for each question is not an issue. But for example a player playing Pret A Porter had a total of 16 questions, which he broke down into three threads. Would 16 threads really be a good thing? Particularly if you are one of the people answering, that's a lot to keep track of and work with. Unfortunately there are games out there that just don't have good rules, and Pret A Porter is one of them.


I don't think anyone is making the claim that it should have been 16 threads. Even if there are multiple questions, you can still use descriptive titles. For example, this thread was renamed by the Campaign:

Starting player and food, card hand size, house animals, using renovation on stone house, baking bread & availability of improvements.
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jschlickbernd wrote:
I understand this concern entirely. However I'm not sure I agree with it. It's fine when a player has a rule question or two, then making a separate thread for each question is not an issue. But for example a player playing Pret A Porter had a total of 16 questions, which he broke down into three threads. Would 16 threads really be a good thing? Particularly if you are one of the people answering, that's a lot to keep track of and work with. Unfortunately there are games out there that just don't have good rules, and Pret A Porter is one of them.


If there are a lot of questions, surely they are/could be grouped in such a way that a descriptive thread is title is still possible. E.g. 'Questions about the Action Phase' and 'Questions about Calculating VP's' or whatever. You could still ask a few questions within a thread like that, but at least there's a pointer for future people browsing the forum to know what type of questions is asked within.
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Nate Rethorn
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Also, politely asking the OP to revise his/her title helps as well. I don't think it's done out of malice--mostly ignorance. A community-led FAQ would be quite useful if done properly.
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