David Dawson
United States
Champaign
Illinois
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I got a bunch of Target gift cards for Christmas, and while I was there recently I saw they had the Fantasy Flight Silver Line edition of Lord of the Rings. It's a game I've been kind of interested and wanted to play so I picked it up. It's still in shrink, and now after reading into it a bit more, I'm starting to get cold feet about my purchase.
I'm not saying the game looks bad, just maybe not good enough to keep in my collection. As a law student, who's usually tight on money but wants to keep up in the hobby, I feel like I can't really justify a purchase unless I think the game is going to be at least an 8 out of 10 for me. $30 could also go towards some other kind of entertainment like video games or movies. Or to necessities, like food, I suppose...
Here are my thoughts on the game:
Pros:
-well balanced (I'm a Knizia fan, btw)
-easy to teach/gateway gamer potential
-VERY thematic, although that's partly a con (see below)
-good component value
Cons:
-very luck-based, although managing that is part of the group strategy
-"scripted"/not replayable, although this is good when you're looking for the story experience
-abstract, and in a limited kind of way, it seems to me. There doesn't seem to be a lot of room for strategically manipulating the mechanics to affect the game, if that makes sense, only resource management among the players.
-other, newer co-ops.
On that last point, I'm also very interested in Ghost Stories, and even would like to check out the Lord of the Rings LCG. I'm just worried that this purchase could be allocated better, and wanted to know what other people's thoughts on the game were. How do you feel about Lord of the Rings? Do you still play it? Am I reading too much into what I've seen on the games page, and shouldn't be concerned?
Thanks for any input!
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Freelance Police
United States
Palo Alto
California
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Another pro is that it's newbie friendly, especially with its Tolkein theme.
I'm trying to remember what "necessities" I buy at Target and am drawing blanks here. I definitely don't buy my groceries there.
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Though I've owned it for several years, it's just never been played, which is a shame. Some day I'll get to it. But here is a very thorough video review by one of its fans:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/359880/video-review-tutorial...
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Thaddeus Griebel
Japan
Awa City
Tokushima
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I haven't played mine in years. If I had to choose between the two, I'd go with Ghost Stories. It's not nearly as abstract and there are more significant choices to make.
Lord of the Rings just seemed too bland and frustrating the couple times I played it, but I've been meaning to give it another shot.
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Dan Conley
United States
Enon
Ohio
My pic. of the statue in Boston honoring Robert Gould Shaw and the 54th Mass. Regiment. The movie "Glory" is a must-see!
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I still play it fairly regularly and have a great time every time! In terms of components, Silver Line is a step down from the original which had plastic hobbit figs, the cool Sauron figure, and The Ring. Cardboard just doesn't cut it by comparison.
There IS a lot of luck with the tile draws, but the game just OOZES theme, and I'm a sucker for that! It's truly a favorite of mine.
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♫ Eric Herman ♫
United States
West Richland
Washington
I like elephants. I like how they swing through trees.
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griethad wrote: I haven't played mine in years. If I had to choose between the two, I'd go with Ghost Stories. It's not nearly as abstract and there are more significant choices to make.
The choices are about the same, but I'd say that Ghost Stories is far more abstract thematically than Lord of the Rings. LOTR may appear abstract, but I think it actually has a better thematic connection to its source than most other games. Theme is different than setting... You can show the setting of something very specifically on a board and with event cards or whatever, but that doesn't mean you'll capture the theme at all within the game itself.
LOTR very well captures the themes of epic travel, cooperative struggle, corruption and sacrifice, and has a great building dramatic tension as you get further into it. You experience the struggle of the hobbits in a broad but nicely dramatized way. And some things are brilliantly depicted, like the ring mechanic. The corruption track is not just plastic figures on a numbered track, growing closer to the dark figure approaching from the other side; that is just the surface layer of it. It may all seem simple, and in one sense it is, but to me the whole thing is also quite deep and very well done.
I love Ghost Stories, too, but LOTR is the more thematic game. And it still holds up really well for me, especially with the Battlefields expansion included.
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Mike Fox
United States
Fort Worth
Texas
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Sam and Max wrote: Another pro is that it's newbie friendly, especially with its Tolkein theme.
I'm trying to remember what "necessities" I buy at Target and am drawing blanks here. I definitely don't buy my groceries there.
diapers! Target's store-brand diapers are the best value we can find as far as price and quality go 
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Mike Fox
United States
Fort Worth
Texas
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Lord of the Rings is my favorite game, hands down. It's fully cooperative. Every decision counts in the end. The artwork is superb. It feels like a quest/journey when you play. Love it.
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Mike Fox
United States
Fort Worth
Texas
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Grudunza wrote: griethad wrote: I haven't played mine in years. If I had to choose between the two, I'd go with Ghost Stories. It's not nearly as abstract and there are more significant choices to make. The choices are about the same, but I'd say that Ghost Stories is far more abstract thematically than Lord of the Rings. LOTR may appear abstract, but I think it actually has a better thematic connection to its source than most other games. Theme is different than setting... You can show the setting of something very specifically on a board and with event cards or whatever, but that doesn't mean you'll capture the theme at all within the game itself. LOTR very well captures the themes of epic travel, cooperative struggle, corruption and sacrifice, and has a great building dramatic tension as you get further into it. You experience the struggle of the hobbits in a broad but nicely dramatized way. And some things are brilliantly depicted, like the ring mechanic. The corruption track is not just plastic figures on a numbered track, growing closer to the dark figure approaching from the other side; that is just the surface layer of it. It may all seem simple, and in one sense it is, but to me the whole thing is also quite deep and very well done. I love Ghost Stories, too, but LOTR is the more thematic game. And it still holds up really well for me, especially with the Battlefields expansion included.
You mentioned "epic travel"---totally agree. As a huge fan of the books and movie, it's the journey/quest aspect of the game that successfully captures the LOTR theme.
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Jerry Martin
United States
Loveland
Colorado
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It is a good game and worth keeping.
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Arch Stanton
United States
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Sam and Max wrote: I'm trying to remember what "necessities" I buy at Target and am drawing blanks here. I definitely don't buy my groceries there.
AA batteries and a Christmas sweater on clearance.
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Sicaria Occaeco
United States
Salt Lake City
Utah
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I prefer Ghost Stories. However Lord of the Rings is worth trying and it does feel like it fits the theme. The tension of getting the ring through definitely comes out in the game. I would still take Ghost Stories over LotR.
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Jonathan Young
United Kingdom
Farnham
Surrey
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Well I have to say, I bought it and I kind of regret it. I do like some of Knizia's games, but for me this one was a bit too clunky. The theme IS strong, but it's still pasted on and i didn't feel that the mechanics quite matched what the narrative was about, so I'll have to disagree with people. I don't think that it's as elegant as some of his games as I find it rather fiddly and a little obtuse. So personally, I'd pass.
However, you mentioned the LOTR LCG, which I absolutely love. The theme is extremely strong (and I'm not even a great LOTR fan believe it or not). It's co-op but also the best one-player game I've ever played. It's challenging and fun and one of those games where you think about it whilst in the bath.
Two things to watch out for though - firstly, it's collectible so it will certainly cost more than the Knizia game in the long run if you buy more. But it's an LCG not a CGG so it's quite controllable and anyway, just the core set will keep you going for a while. Secondly, you really have to enjoy deck-building to get the most out of it. You don't have to be great at it, or have had years of playing M:TG (I not great at it and have only played Magic once or twice) but it IS part of the longer term game.
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Stew Woods
Australia
Wellard
Western Australia
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warth0g wrote: The theme IS strong, but it's still pasted on and i didn't feel that the mechanics quite matched what the narrative was about, so I'll have to disagree with people.
I don't know that you are necessarily disagreeing with anyone - the game doesn't do a very good job of reflecting the narrative.
Like many games, you read the flavour text on the various events but it certainly doesn't feel like - oh I don't know - you've stumbled into Shelob's Lair.
But, as others point out, I think the mechanics are very well integrated with the theme of the story. The game is a long, drawn out quest to get to the end, with a continuing need to prioritise amongst a bunch of possible bad things - chuck in the presence of the luck based tile-draw and, as with the novel, I think there's always the knowledge that it might all be fruitless...
As for whether the theme is pasted on, it's worth reading Knizia's essay about the design process in Salen & Zimmerman's Rules of Play - it definitely wasn't pasted on after the fact but drove the design.
(of course, it certainly reasonable to say it feels pasted on  )
Having said that, after a few plays the base game becomes to easy and I don'y know what the availability og the expansions if like...
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Mike Fox
United States
Fort Worth
Texas
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lokides wrote: warth0g wrote: The theme IS strong, but it's still pasted on and i didn't feel that the mechanics quite matched what the narrative was about, so I'll have to disagree with people. I don't know that you are necessarily disagreeing with anyone - the game doesn't do a very good job of reflecting the narrative. Like many games, you read the flavour text on the various events but it certainly doesn't feel like - oh I don't know - you've stumbled into Shelob's Lair. But, as others point out, I think the mechanics are very well integrated with the theme of the story. The game is a long, drawn out quest to get to the end, with a continuing need to prioritise amongst a bunch of possible bad things - chuck in the presence of the luck based tile-draw and, as with the novel, I think there's always the knowledge that it might all be fruitless... As for whether the theme is pasted on, it's worth reading Knizia's essay about the design process in Salen & Zimmerman's Rules of Play - it definitely wasn't pasted on after the fact but drove the design. (of course, it certainly reasonable to say it feels pasted on ) Having said that, after a few plays the base game becomes to easy and I don'y know what the availability og the expansions if like...
Good thoughts. I would say, though, that if the base game of LOTR is too easy, you make a simple adjustment by moving Sauron ahead on the track. A standard game is challenging enough, but giving Sauron a head start of 3 or 4 spaces makes it one of the more challenging and rewarding games out there.
And that's not a custom/house rule. The instructions talk about starting Sauron at different places for different degrees of difficulty.
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Matt Kruczek
United Kingdom
Colchester
Essex
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Play it at least once, preferably with Tolkien fans and maybe even having recently watched one of the films. There is something about the mechanics and the artwork that just draws you in to the world of Middle Earth.
I've become quite a fan of co-operative games over the years, and with all of them, at some point, I realise that I'm playing the underlying system rather than the game. Knowledge of the decks in Arkham Horror means I visit locations not because it's what my character would do, but because I'm maximising the probability of a favourable card draw. Likewise in Forbidden Island or Pandemic I don't choose to concentrate my efforts on a particular place because the story demands it, but because I've just shuffled its card to the top of the draw deck and I know it's going to come up this turn.
I've never really felt that happen with Lord of the Rings. In spite of the Scenarios being very deterministic, the conversation has never broken the "illusion" of the theme. We don't play handshake cards to get the correct marker to enable us to pass the second event, we strive to form an alliance with Eowyn to defend against the attack of the Nazgul. For me, at any rate, the mechanics propel the story, whilst no overwhelming it.
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Tim Thornhill
United States
Ashland
Oregon
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I see it on the thrift store finds lists pretty consistently. You could probably math trade for it, or buy it used on the cheap...
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Brian Lee
United States
Northridge
California
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I found the artwork to be... bad. I mean the tokens, the hand/foot icons, even the ring, which looks like a donut is... disappointing. The game is tense, but the events are very abstract. As I said before, you have to "imagine" symbols like a token with a heart on it to represents your hobbits "heart" to go on.
In terms of mechanics, you draw tiles and have to advance your team marker through a level. You must try to obtain 3 different tokens for each player playing otherwise you move a spot closer to Sauron - if you touch him, you, individually lose. However, events come up occasionally where you have to prepare for them by saving up certain cards. It's tense, but very linear, but then again co-ops usually are.
I honestly don't play it and haven't for a while. I had purchased it a long time ago when I was in my co-op frenzy mode. I also have many games that I'd rather get out there than this. But if I had to play a co-op, a pure one, this would be my #2 under Arkham.
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David Dawson
United States
Champaign
Illinois
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Well based on what everyone has said, and my own research, I think I'm leaning most strongly towards returning it. It does sound like a game I'd probably enjoy, but I just don't think it's going to have the mileage to justify me owning it. After looking at some of the mechanics, too, it does seem a little dated and 'clunky' as one commenter said, I think. That'll definitely hurt it's "gateway gamer" potential, at least to me and the people I'd introduce it to. Also, mechanically I think Pandemic is going to scratch the same itches, and that one has yet to wear out on me.
Thanks for everyone's help!
:sauron:
P.S., on the plus side, I am looking into the Lord of the Rings LCG now...
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Anthony Simons
United Kingdom
Royal Wootton Bassett
Wiltshire
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I generally don't go for cooperative games; LotR was one of the first I tried, and while it has a good system, it's the fact that you're playing against a system that I find annoying.
I still play it, but it has to played with the Sauron expansion IMO. The game at least becomes an asymmetric meeting of minds when this is used, which in my view is better than pure cooperation.
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Brian Lee
United States
Northridge
California
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I think you made the wise choice. I would say this coop game is a step up from the gateway games type, which Pandemic is already suited towards. As another thing to add, coop games usually have a low replay value, once you figure out their quirks and patterns. Some games though like Arkham have so much variety that having the same exact experience is unlikely.
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Mike Fox
United States
Fort Worth
Texas
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dawson_osu wrote: Well based on what everyone has said, and my own research, I think I'm leaning most strongly towards returning it. It does sound like a game I'd probably enjoy, but I just don't think it's going to have the mileage to justify me owning it. After looking at some of the mechanics, too, it does seem a little dated and 'clunky' as one commenter said, I think. That'll definitely hurt it's "gateway gamer" potential, at least to me and the people I'd introduce it to. Also, mechanically I think Pandemic is going to scratch the same itches, and that one has yet to wear out on me. Thanks for everyone's help!  P.S., on the plus side, I am looking into the Lord of the Rings LCG now...
The ultimately gateway co-op has to be Forbidden Island. If they start with this and get the itch for something more, then Pandemic and Lord of the Rings are great step ups (LOTR is my favorite game, hands down). Another one that is either gateway or a step up (or both) is Red November.
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David Dawson
United States
Champaign
Illinois
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I've found Pandemic is a fine introduction for most non-gamers. Forbidden Island is almost as good, but it's basically the same game as Pandemic, just a little more streamlined. Red November is also great fun, but a little harder to plan ahead.
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