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I like this game and I would like to be wrong about my assumption here. I've played several games of CotG now. In no way do I believe I know about everything this game has to offer. Am I wrong in thinking that the game kind of plays itself though? I mean, every turn typically boils down to spend everything that can be spent and buy/defeat the best cards possible, regardless of what they are. In the several times I have played I can recollect making one decision per game (sometimes maybe two) and the rest of the time I was just buying/defeating the highest number I could afford, regardless of what it was or what it did. The decisions I made were just comparisons between two or three monsters to choose which one had an effect that I needed at the moment. Those sorts of decisions are fine, the problem was that they rarely ever happened.
When I picked up Dominion I felt like the base game ran thin really quickly. After picking up just one expansion it really opened the game up for me. Is Ascension the same way? Will the base game of Ascension get better if I play it more or can I just expect it to get more repetitive like Dominion did?
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Brian Sturk
United States
Hudson
New Hampshire
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I've played about 60 or so games and I still enjoy it, and yes *some* decisions do seem somewhat obvious, but I still find a lot of area for creativity when playing. The 1st expansion made the game a lot more fun for me.
I've only played the base game of Dominion so I can't comment there.
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David Jones
United States
Oregon
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I would agree that there are not a lot of choices in the base game. There is a variant where, in addition to the six cards on the board, you reveal the next six card from the deck so you can see what is coming and plan ahead. I've not played it this way myself, but I've been told it does add some strategy to the game.
You also can end up in situations where you have too much power or too many runes in your deck, so buying the most expensive card is not always the "best" card if your deck is unbalanced. I've lost games by having too many "fighter" types in my deck.
Storm of Souls will remedy your concerns to a bit. Some of the rewards on the monsters can be saved (aka trophies) and used at your discretion instead of being forced to use them immediately. The card interactions are also a bit more intricate, so the order you play them starting having more significance. This, as you say, "opens up" the game much more to my liking.
I'm not a big fan of Dominion and, IMHO, Intrigue is the only set worth playing. Ascension is really the only deck building game I own, so I think I'm too biased to be able to make a good comparison for you. I think the point of Ascension though is that it is supposed to be a simpler game and I "enjoy the ride" more than I care about the strategic aspect.
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Bill Stivers
United States
Indiana
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First "Yes, some choices are obvious" But what we as players think is the obvious choice is not allways the correct choice. The difference between a good player and an average player is seeing the little things and taking advantage of them.
Some little things that take time to master.
1. To buy a card to see the next one or not.
2. Leave a card on the table becuase you are the one most likley to be able to get it.
3. What to banish from the center row
4. When to end the game
5. Should I draw or wait shuffle all my cards at once.
Just some smaller things that come up after whomever your playing with is as familiar with the cards as you are.
illrepute wrote: I like this game and I would like to be wrong about my assumption here. I've played several games of CotG now. In no way do I believe I know about everything this game has to offer. Am I wrong in thinking that the game kind of plays itself though? I mean, every turn typically boils down to spend everything that can be spent and buy/defeat the best cards possible, regardless of what they are. In the several times I have played I can recollect making one decision per game (sometimes maybe two) and the rest of the time I was just buying/defeating the highest number I could afford, regardless of what it was or what it did. The decisions I made were just comparisons between two or three monsters to choose which one had an effect that I needed at the moment. Those sorts of decisions are fine, the problem was that they rarely ever happened.
When I picked up Dominion I felt like the base game ran thin really quickly. After picking up just one expansion it really opened the game up for me. Is Ascension the same way? Will the base game of Ascension get better if I play it more or can I just expect it to get more repetitive like Dominion did?
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Trent Hamm
United States
Huxley
Iowa
See this text? It's a gratuitous waste of GeekGold.
The game itself isn't important. Spending time intellectually jousting with likeminded folks is the real reason to game.
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BillStivers wrote: First "Yes, some choices are obvious" But what we as players think is the obvious choice is not allways the correct choice. The difference between a good player and an average player is seeing the little things and taking advantage of them.
Some little things that take time to master.
1. To buy a card to see the next one or not.
2. Leave a card on the table becuase you are the one most likley to be able to get it.
3. What to banish from the center row
4. When to end the game
5. Should I draw or wait shuffle all my cards at once.
Just some smaller things that come up after whomever your playing with is as familiar with the cards as you are.
It's these subtle things in aggregate that make the difference in the game. Dominion is an exercise in exploiting the obvious, because cards are always available. In Ascension, card availability is unreliable, so you're forced to master the subtleties in order to succeed consistently.
That's why many people who play it once - particularly against others who play it just once - might find it shallow. It's actually pretty deep.
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The AI plays how you play. I beat it three from four.
Some examples: you can buy Mystics for four or en five early.
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I agree with Alex Brown: what you call "obvious" turns out to be quite inefficient. The IA on the iPhone game plays like that and it loses very often - I just beat it with a score of 164 to 95 (and 95 might well be its all-time best…). Of course, the IA happens to win once in a while, mainly when I screw up and keep watching precious cards disappear. Like in poker: sometimes your top-pair wins you nothing but bad beats - it still has better odds to win you the pot.
I'd say, a game of Ascension has three phases:
- initial orientation: depending on the initial board and first turns, chose whether you want to pin your opponent in a race to immediate VP or prefer a longer economy-oriented game
- ramp-up: keep your strategy in mind and tune your deck accordingly! Get rid of useless cards and buy up your base assets
- pay day: the final turn(s) can win you the game. Pay attention to your deck size and chose wisely when to rush for the finish-line. In your last turns, you can buy almost anything, knowing that it won't come back in your hand again to slow you down afterwards.
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