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Subject: I can tell what goods are coming up... rss

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Greg Lott
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First off, love the game.

Secondly... the goods tiles aren't designed very well. When a good is face down, there is a thin line of the color on the flip side that you can see. So, if it's an orange good, I can see it.

Anyone else noticed this? Any suggestions how to deal with it.
 
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Chris Johnson
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1) Don't look/stop cheating. Though that information doesn't really matter *that* much, in the larger scheme of things.

2) If you can't or won't do that, draw them from a bag.
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Mik Svellov
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I solved this problem right after my first game: I took a black marker and inked the 4 sides. It only took me a few minutes, and have worked fine for dozens of games.
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Greg Lott
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fnord23 wrote:
1) Don't look/stop cheating. Though that information doesn't really matter *that* much, in the larger scheme of things.

2) If you can't or won't do that, draw them from a bag.


So your recommendation is to not look at the board.

It's obvious. I'm not trying to cheat, but just glancing at the board gives it away.
 
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Greg Lott
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Great Dane wrote:
I solved this problem right after my first game: I took a black marker and inked the 4 sides. It only took me a few minutes, and have worked fine for dozens of games.


Great idea! THIS is what I was looking for. Not someone just saying "stop being a lamea$$ cheater". laugh
 
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Doug Adams
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Go with the Mr Jack solution (where it was much more critical) - blacken the counter edges with a sharpie.
 
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Chris Johnson
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ferris1971 wrote:
So your recommendation is to not look at the board. :what:



No, my recommendation is to exercise some self-control, and to stop cheating. :)

Quote:
It's obvious. I'm not trying to cheat, but just glancing at the board gives it away.


It's only "obvious" if you choose to actually look for it. It is perfectly possible to play the game dozens of times without looking for that information. I can be quite anal and observant, yet I've had no trouble at all with simply not looking for that information, as has pretty much everyone I've played the game with.

If you lack the self-control to simply ignore or not seek that information, and you somehow believe that this is actually valuable, game-changing information, then use a bag.

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Greg Lott
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fnord23 wrote:
ferris1971 wrote:
So your recommendation is to not look at the board.



No, my recommendation is to exercise some self-control, and to stop cheating.

Quote:
It's obvious. I'm not trying to cheat, but just glancing at the board gives it away.


It's only "obvious" if you choose to actually look for it. It is perfectly possible to play the game dozens of times without looking for that information. I can be quite anal and observant, yet I've had no trouble at all with simply not looking for that information, as has pretty much everyone I've played the game with.

If you lack the self-control to simply ignore or not seek that information, and you somehow believe that this is actually valuable, game-changing information, then use a bag.



Dude, it's not a matter of self-control! I can see the color! The only way to not see it is to, like, try to not look at that part of the table. I'm obviously not the only person who noticed this.

Whatever.

Thanks guys... I'll get the sharpie ready tomorrow.
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Doug Adams
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Pasvik -
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Great Dane wrote:
I solved this problem right after my first game: I took a black marker and inked the 4 sides. It only took me a few minutes, and have worked fine for dozens of games.



Uuuuaaaaahhh. Ok, im not that kind of player, who is shrinkwraping every piece of my games or just keep them on a shelf for looking at, but still: using a black marker and ink any of the pieces of a game (except form Saint Malo in the near future) would just knock me off. I prefer to draw them out of a bag!!!
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Jeff Michaud
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I've played 4 times and never noticed... though even if I did I guess I'm not advanced enough yet to be able to plan that far ahead into another round
 
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Michael Denman
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First of all, I agree with Chris that it's really NOT hard to play the game without "accidentally" seeing the chip color. However, the easiest solution to me is to simply grab the five random chips when you need them. You don't even need a bag to pull this off easily. I don't see the sharpie as a workable solution. If I'm being observant enough to see the color of the chips, I'm going to quickly learn which tile is which after I marked them up. Maybe that's just my inept marker skills though...
 
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Mik Svellov
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Trump wrote:
First of all, I agree with Chris that it's really NOT hard to play the game without "accidentally" seeing the chip color.

It just proves that some people are more perceptive as others.
I (and the OP apparently) simply cannot turn my senses off. I have never understood how people can concentrate so hard at reading that they cannot hear someone else talking to them (as if they close their ears when reading - how do you do that?) or can decide not see something that is in plain view.

As far as bagging the tiles: that would be a good solution for most games. In this case it isn't an elegant solution as the tiles also function as a round tracker.

However, I do understand that people don't want to ruin a game they potentially want to sell.
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Steve Duff
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Great Dane wrote:
As far as bagging the tiles: that would be a good solution for most games. In this case it isn't an elegant solution as the tiles also function as a round tracker.


All you need is a single piece to track the round. Literally anything you have lying around, a coin, pawn, an unused player disc, whatever.

Throw 25 tiles in a bag, put the round marker in spot 1, pull 5 tiles. Move the marker each time you pull 5 out of the bag.
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Blake Stetson
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I have noticed this problem as well.

For one, I can't remember which ones are coming up.
For two, it wouldn't change my decisions that much because there are so many variables. Even if you played the game with open information, knowing which colors are coming up, I don't think it would change the game much.

Just my two cents!
blake.
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George Parker
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Not sure how much this matters. Once you start a new phase a stack of five goods come down and each one is revealed in the round spaces. So you see them all then and that's before each one is randomly placed (one per round) in a depot using the white die. If you could see them coming AND control in which depot they were placed, THEN I could see you would had an advantage. For me, there are better ways to play than to plan future moves based on the colored edges you see in the phase stacks.
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Daniel Corban
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I also don't see the practicality of knowing the colours in advance. The tiles are distributed randomly. The hexes are distributed randomly. Between these two randomization elements, I feel the opportunity to plan ahead is virtually zero.

Can someone provide an example of how you could consistently use this knowledge to your advantage? It would seem any attempt to focus on this aspect would cause a significant disadvantage overall.
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Andrew Walters
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I think it *is* sometimes useful to know if more of a certain color are coming up or not. Once the tiles are face up I certainly use that information. I have no way of assessing how much that's helping me. It could even be working against me, for all I know. I hadn't thought of looking at the sides of the tokens. Can you see the sides of the black tiles, too? We usually create stacks before the game for the refilling. We may have to stop...
 
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Chris Johnson
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It's only an issue if you lack self-control or are bent on cheating. Really.

On every set I've seen, to see what colors are coming up, you need to get right down at table-level, and actively look for it.

While it's *possible* it might be more obvious on some copies, I've seen examples from every print run, and have yet to see one where it wasn't perfectly easy and reasonable to play a game without having that knowledge.
 
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Mik Svellov
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dcorban wrote:
I also don't see the practicality of knowing the colours in advance. The tiles are distributed randomly. The hexes are distributed randomly.

Nothing to do with hexes at all. We're talking about the square Goods tiles. And knowing that 2 of the next 3 tiles will be pink (and a further 2 pink in the next phase) will influence when I am building my ships,
 
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Daniel Corban
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Great Dane wrote:
dcorban wrote:
I also don't see the practicality of knowing the colours in advance. The tiles are distributed randomly. The hexes are distributed randomly.

Nothing to do with hexes at all. We're talking about the square Goods tiles. And knowing that 2 of the next 3 tiles will be pink (and a further 2 pink in the next phase) will influence when I am building my ships,

You are able to place ships at will?

To clarify, it seems to even have the option to place a ship involves rolling the correct dice to get the hexes you need to become adjacent to water, then rolling the correct dice to get the ships. You must do this all while optimizing your VP in other areas and being efficient with actions and workers. Also, the other three players are all competing for your buildings and ships. This is why I mentioned the hexes.

Is this another one of those "issues" that only significantly affects two-player games when playing against a new or poor player?
 
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Mik Svellov
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dcorban wrote:
You are able to place ships at will?

I always try to have a ship in my pool - and a few workers doesn't hurt either.
As you only need 6 ships for 5 phases, it certainly helps if you know when which color goods will become available in future turns. Especially when you try to get several of the same color or at least one of each.

Af issues with the two-player game, I wouldn't know. I only play with exactly four players.
 
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Hans Moleman
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Tell everyone at the table about the problem, therefore no advantage if it's common knowledge. Also, it really isn't a huge advantage at all as long as one pays atten tion to the game since there are a limited number of goods (at most 7 per each one). Odds are you only see 5 or 6 of each number the entire game...play that way, and you can kind of predict which good is goingto come up
 
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