$10.00
Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Twilight Imperium (Third Edition): Shattered Empire» Forums » Rules

Subject: Speaker and Mines rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
ike evans
United States
Chaska
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I just upgraded to the Shattered Empire expansion and there are some items that trouble me:

1) In the base game the speaker always went to the player who held the Initiative strategy card. If we decided to play the "Simulated Early Turns" option, who becomes the Speaker? Do we just choose it randomly?

2) Space mines: if I read the rulebook correctly, the only time space mines can be played is during a transfer action, not a tactical action (i.e. you place the mines during the PRODUCTION step, which is not part of the tactical action). But as I read another somewhat related question on the issue, it seems that TI3 buffs are pretty clear that mines can be placed in ANY system that a cruiser moves into - including systems that a player just took over, which would be part of a tactical action.

3) How much time does the "Simulate Early Turns" save in the overall game play? Is it worth it if I'm trying to cut the game time to, say, 6 hours?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JH
United States
Albany
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The production step IS part of the Tactical Action (step 7, produce units). You can lay down mines during a standard activation sequence.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Gagner
United States
Maple Grove
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ikesteroma wrote:
I just upgraded to the Shattered Empire expansion and there are some items that trouble me:

1) In the base game the speaker always went to the player who held the Initiative strategy card. If we decided to play the "Simulated Early Turns" option, who becomes the Speaker? Do we just choose it randomly?

2) Space mines: if I read the rulebook correctly, the only time space mines can be played is during a transfer action, not a tactical action (i.e. you place the mines during the PRODUCTION step, which is not part of the tactical action). But as I read another somewhat related question on the issue, it seems that TI3 buffs are pretty clear that mines can be placed in ANY system that a cruiser moves into - including systems that a player just took over, which would be part of a tactical action.

3) How much time does the "Simulate Early Turns" save in the overall game play? Is it worth it if I'm trying to cut the game time to, say, 6 hours?


1) I can't answer this off-hand without looking at the rulebook, so someone else can answer this.

2) You definitely can build space mines during a tactical action. The production step happens every tactical action. Check out your race sheet which lists the 7 steps of a tactical action. The only difference with production and transfer is that you can only produce in one of the two systems.

3) I would recommend against simulated. There are lots of races that will lose out on their racial abilities and I don't think you save much time as the beginning rounds are the fastest ones anyway. Also, game time is added with people being new and not being clear on the rules. The more you play the more normal a round should go. Its a good idea to have someone "run" the turn order. Letting someone know when its their turn. Letting the next person start their turn when someone activates build is another way to speed it up.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jarek W
Poland
flag msg tools
mb
ikesteroma wrote:
I just upgraded to the Shattered Empire expansion and there are some items that trouble me:

1) In the base game the speaker always went to the player who held the Initiative strategy card. If we decided to play the "Simulated Early Turns" option, who becomes the Speaker? Do we just choose it randomly?

2) Space mines: if I read the rulebook correctly, the only time space mines can be played is during a transfer action, not a tactical action (i.e. you place the mines during the PRODUCTION step, which is not part of the tactical action). But as I read another somewhat related question on the issue, it seems that TI3 buffs are pretty clear that mines can be placed in ANY system that a cruiser moves into - including systems that a player just took over, which would be part of a tactical action.

3) How much time does the "Simulate Early Turns" save in the overall game play? Is it worth it if I'm trying to cut the game time to, say, 6 hours?


1. Speaker token is handed to the first player in the Galaxy Creation step during setup (checked in the rulebook). The token will stay with him until the proper strategy card is resolved (note that simulated early turns happen right after setup, so even the Initiative SC doesn't change who the speaker is).

2. Production step happens in both tactical and transfer actions.

3. I'll say they don't cut the game time, moreover, they can add some. The first real turn will be like third turn in the game without the variant. One objective is revealed, which shortens the game time, but you lack those fast turns, when nothing happens and the "heavy thinking" begins earlier.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ike evans
United States
Chaska
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Oh my! There it is on page 12 of the rulebook. How did I miss production?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prickly Pea
msg tools
In a recent game we had a disagreement on this. One group thought that you could not produce mines in a system you just conquered (in line with Space Docks). The other believed that you could produce any time at the Production phase of your tactical action.

Is there then consensus that it is always possible to produce these mines?

Another question - what is the purpose behind mines only triggering when you 'end' in a hex? I thought it would make sense to trigger whenever you passed through a hex.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
mbmbmbmbmb
PricklyPea wrote:
In a recent game we had a disagreement on this. One group thought that you could not produce mines in a system you just conquered (in line with Space Docks). The other believed that you could produce any time at the Production phase of your tactical action.

Unlike with Space Docks, there is no rule that says you must have controlled anything for any length of time to place a Space Mine - all that matters is that during the production step, you have a Cruiser there.

IE, the rule about not building at an SD has nothing to do with the rules for production, but rather the rules specific to SDs.

Quote:
Another question - what is the purpose behind mines only triggering when you 'end' in a hex? I thought it would make sense to trigger whenever you passed through a hex.

Space is very big. I would assume that when passing "through" you can give the mines a wide berth, but if you end in the space, it's assumed you are ending near some important point of interest. You can't move through spaces with enemy ships, though, because they aren't stationary like mines - they can move to intercept you (unless they can't see you via Light/Wave Deflector).
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Petersen
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
It's also worth noting that a cruiser produced this same Tactical Action cannot itself produce a Space Mine. Only one Space Mine may be built per Tactical Action, not per cruiser. Space Mines may not be produced from Production SC/Imperial secondaries, because they are not units, nor are they produced from an Space Dock.

As for SET, I haven't used it to see how much it speeds up/slows down the game. For players with Analysis Paralysis, I'd imagine the SET set-up takes longer than the first 2 rounds. The first real round would take even longer, since players don't have TAs set up yet, nor have they shown how aggressive/passive they are.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prickly Pea
msg tools
Thanks for your answers. About the triggering Space Mines - I guess you can come up with any number of 'story' reasons for triggering or not triggering when you pass through a space hex.

I was actually wondering whether there was a game balance reason for the rule. In other games I played, mines were used as a deterrent to dissuade people from taking a certain route. But with this movement rule, you could actually 'skip over' the mine rendering it useless for blocking/delaying.

In fact, instead of spending a CC to move a cruiser, deploy a mine for 2 Res, and then a CC to move the cruiser away again - you could alternatively just station a destroyer there for 1 CC and 1 Res. Of course, the damage deterrent is different.

It just seemed a little strange to me and so I thought there must be some game balance rule or other consequence that I might not have thought of...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brett Thomason
New Zealand
Nelson
None
flag msg tools
mb
TomBoombs wrote:
It's also worth noting that a cruiser produced this same Tactical Action cannot itself produce a Space Mine.


NOTHING in the rulebooks prevents this so unless it's in the FAQ it's entirely possible for a new cruiser to produce a mine
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
mbmbmbmbmb
Weaselboy wrote:
TomBoombs wrote:
It's also worth noting that a cruiser produced this same Tactical Action cannot itself produce a Space Mine.


NOTHING in the rulebooks prevents this so unless it's in the FAQ it's entirely possible for a new cruiser to produce a mine

It's in the FAQ, and it's explicitly stated that it's not allowed. In version 2.5 (the latest version) it's on page 10.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.