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Subject: More pointless grumbling about promos rss

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Curt Carpenter
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So I just got an email update from GMT Games, that went something like this:

February 16 Update from GMT wrote:
Promotional Card Deck for Dominant Species: The Card Game



We're getting closer to releasing designer Chad Jensen's newest game: Dominant Species: The Card Game. Recently, the fine folks at Boardgame Geek approached us about creating a six-card promotional mini-deck that they could use to sell and spotlight this game on BGG. We hadn't really planned on these being in the game, but Chad gave his approval and then came up with six cool new cards for the BGG deck.

Because we're always looking for ways to says "thanks" to our P500 supporters, the final piece of the agreement that allowed us to sign off on this was BGG agreeing that we could include the promotional deck FREE to all of you guys who pre-order the game via P500. So, "Surprise! You P500 guys will get the BGG Promotional deck free along with your P500 order of the game. Enjoy!

Here's a bit of detail from Chad highlighting one of the six cards in the BGG deck:

This BGG deck is a set of 6 additional cards for use with DS: TCG. They can simply be shuffled in with the rest of the cards at the start of any game, and use the standard rules of the game. Each promo card is an event, with each one tied thematically to one of the six animal classes represented in the game. For example, "Apex Predator" ...


... checks to see if there is a healthy Reptile card in play and, if so, provides for a powerful effect.
How do you get these cards? One set of six promo cards will be included for free with every P500 preordered game shipped. A limited number of sets will afterwards be made available through the BoardGameGeek.com store.
To learn more about how these and other cards work in the game, the full rulebook is available for free download. You can find it at GMTGames.com or BoardGameGeek.com. Enjoy!


This is irritating. As a big DS fan, I was planning to get this game, but now I have lost interest. I'm disappointed that BGG would encourage and instigate the creation of promos before the game is even out. And I'm disappointed that GMT would throw them in with P500 orders.

In my day, we walked to school five miles in the snow, uphill each way, but when we bought a game at a normal retailer, it was the whole game. We didn't have to kickstart it, order separate promos, go to cons, or jump through other hoops to get the whole thing. I miss the good ol' days.
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Tim Seitz
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Glen Allen
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Worrying that you're missing out on something is not the Buddha nature.

I've recently come to the conclusion that I don't particularly care for expansions. So I just stopped buying them. I don't worry that my copy of the game is missing something, or that someone else has something better than I do.
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Val Ruza
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I am very Zen about my promos and expansion. I need one of everything!
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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curtc wrote:
I'm disappointed that BGG would encourage and instigate the creation of promos before the game is even out.

BGG has to pay the rent, just like everybody else. The game doesn't require those extra cards, and lots of people are happy to be able to get something new for $5 shipped.

I do understand what you're saying. Lots of us are completionists, but BGG didn't start the whole promo card thing. I'd much rather have promos sold here at a reasonable price than handed out at a convention and scalped for big bucks on eBay.
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M. S.
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I'm fine with publisher's offering promos as long as they aren't a substitute for a pre-order discount.
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Oliver Twitt
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This is such an alien stance to me. The idea some people have that developers are removing content and holding it hostage for the sake of publicity is absurd.
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Robert Forrest
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You've lost interest because they are offering extra stuff?

Oh well, enjoy not playing the game.
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Jeff Forbes

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The game was created without the promo cards.

It can stand on its own without them. Odds are that these cards were playtested less than the whole game, and are not likely to significantly alter the experience of the game.

You need to stop worrying and start enjoying. meeple


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Freelance Police
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jaybeethree wrote:
This is such an alien stance to me. The idea some people have that developers are removing content and holding it hostage for the sake of publicity is absurd.


Well, Dominion didn't remove content. Some of its promo cards aren't suitable for normal play (eg. Black Market), others were weird (eg. Stash), and others didn't maket he cut (eg. Envoy). Others were added to the original design (eg. promo cards for RGG games).

Also, publishers cut stuff out because of costs, or designers think of stuff after the game is published. Promos are one way to add this stuff back.

I sure wouldn't mind if RGG eventually sells a Promos expansion set!
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Derry Salewski
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It's kinda strange. Nothing has changed about the game since you cared about trying it before they made some new cards for it, and after you found out about that.

So you might be opposed to BGG trying to support itself/advertise your favorite companies. Which seems a bit silly.

Or it's in your head that you NEED this and now someone is . . . making you need it?

Okay. But avoiding games might not be the best way to cope with it.

I get really annoyed by things. I got really mad at splotter/funagain games for THEIR retarded (using it correctly here, but I hope it also conveys my anger by upsetting someone with the inappropriateness of it!) business practices when I wanted Antiquity. (Got a copy from Germany for pretty much the same price, with none of the hassle (other than google translate.))

Funnily enough, my solution for resolving(temporarily, apparently) my anger was to go support a company I admire by preordering one of their games-- Dominant Species the card game from GMT!

So I am glad it's coming, and glad it's got 6 new cards in it in case I want them.

Soo I sort of feel your pain?

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Mr. Blue
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curtc wrote:
This is irritating. As a big DS fan, I was planning to get this game, but now I have lost interest. I'm disappointed that BGG would encourage and instigate the creation of promos before the game is even out. And I'm disappointed that GMT would throw them in with P500 orders.


Yeah, we wouldn't want to give any special favors to those annoying folks who showed early support for the game by placing pre-orders. That would be so unfair to those diligent folks who wait for other people to buy, playtest, and review the games first before they plunk down their hard-earned cash at their FLGS. And we certainly wouldn't want to encourage any actions that would actually increase interest in potentially cool new games, especially here in the BGG community. It's just a travesty, I tell you. A travesty.

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Update from GMT wrote:
A limited number of sets will afterwards be made available through the BoardGameGeek.com store.


Could somebody from BGG or GMT define 'Limited number'?

Does this mean that this will be scalpers heaven again with them appearing on the BGG marketplace or ebay for $40 the day after while people who wanted to support their local game store instead of using the P500 to buy the game miss out on them because they needed to help their elderly grandmother up the stairs during the 30 minutes it took for the limited numbers to sell out in the BGG store?

Just thought I'd enquire. kiss
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darksurtur
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I suspect there would have 90% fewer complaints if GMT had simply avoided using the word "limited." It's a completely pointless adjective anyways, since GMT, to my knowledge, does not have access to an infinite-copy printer.

This is also why I would heartily recommend publishers never make truly one-off promotional items for games (in a functional sense - I'm not counting alternate art, upgraded components, artbooks, etc., only items that alter core gameplay). The potential PR hit seems too great - make them generally available later, more expensive, anything other than "too late, you missed it."
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Michael Engle
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Quote:
In my day, we walked to school five miles in the snow, uphill each way


Don't forget you were also barefoot

At least this is what my dad always told me about when he was a kid in the hills of Kentucky
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Aaron Morgan
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curtc wrote:
I'm disappointed that BGG would encourage and instigate the creation of promos before the game is even out.


That's the very point of promos - to promote the product.
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Bryan Ward
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I consider promos fan service. I do not need them anymore but I think it is cool of the companies to put a little extra geek into the products for their fans.
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Oliver Twitt
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darksurtur wrote:
I suspect there would have 90% fewer complaints if GMT had simply avoided using the word "limited." It's a completely pointless adjective anyways, since GMT, to my knowledge, does not have access to an infinite-copy printer.

This is also why I would heartily recommend publishers never make truly one-off promotional items for games (in a functional sense - I'm not counting alternate art, upgraded components, artbooks, etc., only items that alter core gameplay). The potential PR hit seems too great - make them generally available later, more expensive, anything other than "too late, you missed it."


The term "limited" is a pointless buzz word anyway because, as you said, nothing is infinite. The whole limited edition/promotion/alternate cover/foil cover bullshit was one of the contributing factors that nearly killed the comic book industry in the 90s.

Everything is "limited." You can't keep something in print forever. Telling people it's specifically limited or rare or special edition does nothing but drive the aftermarket value which doesn't earn you any money at all.
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Tom
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Seriously, $5? and your complaining? When the promos come out I will buy a set for you...problem solved and tragedy averted. NO kidding.

Life must be good when this is what people bitch about...not poverty, not milk turning sour, nor raging political fires...but promos....lol
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Ron Parker
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Thank you for your pointless grumbling about promos. You reminded me that there were five promos I wanted from the BGG store, on the day that I got my paycheck.
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Martin Larouche
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jaybeethree wrote:
This is such an alien stance to me. The idea some people have that developers are removing content and holding it hostage for the sake of publicity is absurd.


Check out Thunderstone Advance.

The avatar cards are available for free if you purchase within the first week. After that, it's 10$ on their website.

It's a promo for all intent and purpose. The rules will be there, but not specifically the cards. You have to go through hoops to get them.

My perception of this is exactly as you describe. Holding part of the game hostage for the sake of publicity, absurd as it may be.
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Ryan M
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I am missing the cause of your frustration. If you buy this at a retailer, you ARE getting the whole game. Promos are not part of the whole game. They are bonuses, often mediocre at best or products that were actually CUT from the "whole game" for any number of reasons.

Amd evem of yo uare one of those people who MUST buy every expansion or promo...then you have a BGG account and this story openly states these were designed with sale of BGG in mind. So you can get them if you want.

As for your comment that BGG is seeking out developers and enouraging them to make promos, I don't see an issue with this either.
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I Am Sparcatus
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I've come to peace with promos. Usually they're not worth anything. I bought the two first Dominion promos from the store here; the cards are not well thought out and not fun to play. We never use them.

Plaid Hat has promo mercenary champions (edit: for the game Summoner Wars) available on their site; I haven't bothered to get them yet either, and don't feel my enjoyment of the game is in any way diminished.

Bottom line - don't worry about them. Enjoy what you've got. And as others have said, if you really want them, consider them mini-expansions & buy them from the BGG store.
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Paul Cornelissen
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out4blood wrote:
I've recently come to the conclusion that I don't particularly care for expansions. So I just stopped buying them. I don't worry that my copy of the game is missing something, or that someone else has something better than I do.

Interesting point. Regarding the Commands and Colors Ancients series, I was just thinking about how to get the most bang for the buck without purchasing the core game and all six expansions. The task becomes difficult when you try to include the Epic Rules, I think.

I ran into the same problem with Runebound (Second Edition) and the endless expansions in that series. In that case, I purchased several expansions after liking the core game, then acquired a large number of expansions in a second round of purchases before playing through the first batch. Boy, what a mistake that was -- but it did cure me of the completionist bug.
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rain
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Sphere wrote:
BGG has to pay the rent, just like everybody else.

I am very glad BGG can pay their rent. This is an amazing site. Note my patron badge (just one year so far, but more will follow). I encourage everyone to donate to the site. But promos is an inappropriate place for them to try and rake it in.

Five dollars doesn't seem like a lot of money when you consider it as a single sum, but saying five dollars is always cheap is stupid speak. Boardgamers shouldn't be so mathematically challenged! Often with these promos you're getting fewer than ten pieces of paper--per piece they cost more than the original game. For example, Nightfall (great game) is about $35 for 312 cards, so less than 10 cents a card. The Nightfall Zombie Horde promo is $5 for 8 cards, more than 60 cents a card. More than SIX times as much? Come on.

In most businesses, promos are a way of getting people excited about a product. They are very cheap or often free. In this hobby, promos have become a collector's item limited only to the hardcore.
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I Am Sparcatus
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Rainstar wrote:
Sphere wrote:
BGG has to pay the rent, just like everybody else.

I am very glad BGG can pay their rent. This is an amazing site. Note my patron badge (just one year so far, but more will follow). I encourage everyone to donate to the site. But promos is an inappropriate place for them to try and rake it in.

Five dollars doesn't seem like a lot of money when you consider it as a single sum, but saying five dollars is always cheap is stupid speak. Boardgamers shouldn't be so mathematically challenged! Often with these promos you're getting fewer than ten pieces of paper--per piece they cost more than the original game. For example, Nightfall (great game) is about $35 for 312 cards, so less than 10 cents a card. The Nightfall Zombie Horde promo is $5 for 8 cards, more than 60 cents a card. More than SIX times as much? Come on.

In most businesses, promos are a way of getting people excited about a product. They are very cheap or often free. In this hobby, promos have become a collector's item limited only to the hardcore.



Well, so what? "Inappropriate"? Why? Because they're too expensive? If so, then no one will buy them, and they'll be forced to drop the price. Maybe you mean 'too expensive for YOU' which is an entirely different problem with no answer that's not gonna let you down. So I'll leave it up to your imagination.
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