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Subject: More pointless grumbling about promos rss

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Curt Carpenter
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out4blood wrote:
curtc wrote:
out4blood wrote:
curtc wrote:
I disagree that promos are just another form of advertising. It may seem that way to publishers, but it's different to (at least some) consumers.

Ah, I may see the problem now. So, if you don't like it, it's not legitimate advertising?

It's not just advertising. It modifies the product being advertised. If you can't see that difference, I can't help you.

First you say it's not advertising. Now you say it's advertising plus.

So which is it?

"If you can't see the difference, I can't help you."
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Cilantro V
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Another point to keep in mind is that it DOES get worse:

Most BGG promos are simply optional expansions. In the world of videogames, things have very quickly become much more grim from a consumer point of view.
It is not uncommon for a major release to have different pre-order bonuses at each of 3-4 different retailers. Target will give you a download code for a shiny sword and unlock level x, gamestop will give you a code for a powerful spell and open dungeon y, etc. For the most part it seems like BGG selling promopacks is preventing boardgamers from having to buy the game three times (say, from publisher, amazon, kickstarter) to get all the associated goodies.
The only real downer is kickstarter-only bundles, which can be a real rotten deal if you find out you just missed backing something and probably/will buy it anyway.

Then there's the dark side of DLC and pre-order bonuses; The developers specifically segment their game or the publisher demands that parts of already completed content be held back so they can be sold later. This is often suspected when a game seems very short and there's pre-announced DLC at launch, and there's a very gray line between "budgeting did not allow for this extra level to be developed on time" and "the budget was manipulated to make sure this level would be finished and available just after the main title launched without it at regular retail price."

In general, it seems to me that BGG selling promos provides a way for game designers/publishers to use special early-adopter or kickstarter incentives without penalizing the community at large by making them limited-edition. Wether this is how the BGG store is being used remains open to interpretation.
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Robert Forrest
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curtc wrote:
out4blood wrote:
curtc wrote:
out4blood wrote:
curtc wrote:
I disagree that promos are just another form of advertising. It may seem that way to publishers, but it's different to (at least some) consumers.

Ah, I may see the problem now. So, if you don't like it, it's not legitimate advertising?

It's not just advertising. It modifies the product being advertised. If you can't see that difference, I can't help you.

First you say it's not advertising. Now you say it's advertising plus.

So which is it?

"If you can't see the difference, I can't help you."


You understand you could say that about anything, and that as much as you think that makes you sound like you're the one in the know, it's very much the opposite?
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Curt Carpenter
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Edward J Grug III wrote:
curtc wrote:
out4blood wrote:
curtc wrote:
out4blood wrote:
curtc wrote:
I disagree that promos are just another form of advertising. It may seem that way to publishers, but it's different to (at least some) consumers.

Ah, I may see the problem now. So, if you don't like it, it's not legitimate advertising?

It's not just advertising. It modifies the product being advertised. If you can't see that difference, I can't help you.

First you say it's not advertising. Now you say it's advertising plus.

So which is it?

"If you can't see the difference, I can't help you."


You understand you could say that about anything, and that as much as you think that makes you sound like you're the one in the know, it's very much the opposite?

I have no intention or desire to sound like I'm the one (as if there's only one) in the know. But with as many posts as I've made in this thread, responding to nearly each and every comment, at some point I have to stop saying the same things over and over. Especially when the answer is directly in the very brief post immediately being replied to. Highlighted again for you and anyone else.
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Robert Forrest
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What I said very much applies to the first instance of it as well.
 
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chaddyboy_2000 wrote:
curtc wrote:
If the point of promos at a con was to get people to buy the game at the con, what's the purpose of promos on BGG?

For publishers - They get great product placement in the Geek Store (since a ton of people visit it to grab promos) which is good marketing for the game in itself. Furthermore, we give them advertising credit for every unit of promo they send us, so they earn additional advertising to promote any other products they'd like via contests or banner ads. In the end, publishers get more exposure for cheaper than if they had paid us for advertising in cash.

For BGG - We get another revenue source from selling the promos. Promos are as good as (or in some cases, better than) cash to us, so we're happy to handle them.

For gamers - Gamers get promos that would otherwise be hard to get or non-existent for a reasonable price (the $5 includes shipping to anywhere in the world).

curtc wrote:
Am I really that different from normal customers in that I have no idea what promos are available for 99% of the games I buy?

curtc wrote:
I admit to having looked at the BGG promo store, in case I saw any that looked really great (hasn't happened yet), but the idea that I might want to buy a game because there was a promo---that I could pay extra for---has not, and I dare say, would not, ever enter my mind. If anything, as this thread attests, it's the opposite. Maybe I'm just different.

In my experience with the Geek Store promo program so far, yes, you are in the minority in your opinions. We sell through these things like hotcakes. If we didn't, we wouldn't be doing it any more!

I get requests from users every day for promos they're searching for, wondering if BGG can help to make them more easily available. I've heard feedback from a ton of folks that they bought the promo first, and THEN bought the base game, thanking me for exposing them to the game through the promo on offer. So, it's just a matter of differing opinions.

In the end, I personally don't understand the negative reactions. Promos are expansions just like any other expansion. They would never have been included in the base game to begin with, so they are simply bonus game material for anyone that wants a new twist on the game. To most gamers out there, they like more options for their games, so promos are a fun little optional addition. If you don't like the fun additions, or the additions just plain don't look fun or interesting to you, you can just ignore them no problem and enjoy the base game as if the promos had never existed (which it sounds like you'd be totally fine with), while people that enjoy the promos can enjoy them.


THANK YOU BGG FOR THE PROMOS

ME GUSTA MUCHO!!!@@#!~#eleventy~~!~@!
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Curt Carpenter
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Edward J Grug III wrote:
What I said very much applies to the first instance of it as well.

Yeah, I concede your point in the first instance. Background just for fyi: Given the tone of his previous comments, I (correctly) predicted he would ask the difference, even though I just answered it. By adding the extra comment I was trying to stem the preempt that. In hindsight it didn't work, obviously.
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Richard Ham
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Wow, this has gone on awhile. Can't we all just agree that some people think promos rock, others think they suck, and those who think they suck should just ignore them, while those who think they rock should continue to enjoy them?

What more needs to be said, really? (he asked foolishly )
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Tim Seitz
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curtc wrote:
Edward J Grug III wrote:
curtc wrote:
out4blood wrote:
curtc wrote:
out4blood wrote:
curtc wrote:
I disagree that promos are just another form of advertising. It may seem that way to publishers, but it's different to (at least some) consumers.

Ah, I may see the problem now. So, if you don't like it, it's not legitimate advertising?

It's not just advertising. It modifies the product being advertised. If you can't see that difference, I can't help you.

First you say it's not advertising. Now you say it's advertising plus.

So which is it?

"If you can't see the difference, I can't help you."


You understand you could say that about anything, and that as much as you think that makes you sound like you're the one in the know, it's very much the opposite?

I have no intention or desire to sound like I'm the one (as if there's only one) in the know. But with as many posts as I've made in this thread, responding to nearly each and every comment, at some point I have to stop saying the same things over and over. Especially when the answer is directly in the very brief post immediately being replied to. Highlighted again for you and anyone else.

Except your answers keep changing.

First you say that "BGG promos don't really promote the base games at all." (emphasis yours) - even though they (obviously) do.

Then you say, "If the point of promos at a con was to get people to buy the game at the con, what's the purpose of promos on BGG?" It's advertising, to get people to buy the game. Promoting the base game.

Then you say this: "I disagree that promos are just another form of advertising. It may seem that way to publishers, but it's different to (at least some) consumers."

Then you say: "It's not just advertising."

So in the space of this thread, you've gone from it's not advertising "at all", to it's "more than just advertising".

So excuse us if we're too stupid to tell what the difference here is.
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Stefan Lopuszanski
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Quote:
We hadn't really planned on these being in the game, but Chad gave his approval and then came up with six cool new cards for the BGG deck.


? I don't understand the complaints. The game wasn't designed with this and thus it wasn't the original intention for anything else to be included. Not having this doesn't hurt you from playing the original game (in fact, not having it would probably help you as it most likely wasn't play tested heavily with the promo cards).

Some people just need to complain for no reason other than to complain... just be thankful that BGG will have them and you don't have to hunt them down on eBay for 100x their worth just because you have some weird OCD problem and need to own everything.

I think you're more angry about your OCD than you are about the publisher.
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Robert Forrest
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The main thing he's angry about is BGG initiating it, but I can't see the problem, as it makes complete sense to me.

I hope they contact the designers of all my favourite games and ask the same thing.
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Curt Carpenter
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Tim, you're making it way too complicated. You said it's "just another form of advertising". I disagreed with that and maintain that position.

I accept that promos do apparently promote the base game, according to Chad. As I said in reply to him, I found that surprising. Not obvious.
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Stefan Lopuszanski
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Edward J Grug III wrote:
The main thing he's angry about is BGG initiating it, but I can't see the problem, as it makes complete sense to me.

I hope they contact the designers of all my favourite games and ask the same thing.


Agreed. I wouldn't mind BGG contacting EVERY single popular game and asking them if they wanted to do a promo for the BGG store! I mean those promos are awesome and can sometimes really add some cool things to the game (Black Market for Dominion as a prime example).
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spags
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Can I 'Unthumb' this thread?
 
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spags wrote:
Can I 'Unthumb' this thread?

Nope, but you can block it (in the title/banner area).

edit: Alternately, you can thumb the opinion of someone else who has expressed an opinion very close to yours.
 
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Jim McMahon
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spags wrote:
Can I 'Unthumb' this thread?
Only if you have already thumbed it to begin with. Simply repeat the process used to "Thumb" it and you will then "Unthumb" it.
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Curt Carpenter
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spags wrote:
Can I 'Unthumb' this thread?

You can ignore it. That's probably closest thing to the effect you're looking for. Posts like yours are helping to keep it #2 on the forum hot list. Maybe not the effect you wanted.
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Derry Salewski
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curtc wrote:
spags wrote:
Can I 'Unthumb' this thread?

You can ignore it. That's probably closest thing to the effect you're looking for. Posts like yours are helping to keep it #2 on the forum hot list. Maybe not the effect you wanted.


Well getting everyone to read his unthumb, since there is no unthumb, might be better for him!
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Curt Carpenter
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scifiantihero wrote:
Well getting everyone to read his unthumb, since there is no unthumb, might be better for him!

True. I guess it depends on whether his goal is to reduce the attention the thread gets (opposite of thumbing the thread), or draw attention to his own non-appreciation of the thread.

This whole thread has kinda become a caricature.
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Christopher Rao
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I'll go with dadaesque. Thumbed for sake of spectacle devil

Gotta say that I tend to agree with you, despite being with a company that does it's share of promos ... For me, it's just a question of bandwidth and possible confusion about what's in the box (yeah, apparently I'm a flaming hypocrite).

Rock on.
 
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Phagocyte wrote:
cannoneer wrote:
Phagocyte wrote:

It seems that most people are responding with the usual kudos or brickbats about promos in general or the Geek Store in particular. My take from the OP is dismay that BGG initiated the creation of these cards. This when BGG knows how controversial promos are to its members -- especially given the recent Eclipse fiasco. I'm generally a supporter of the store, but BGG's role here was insensitive at best.




Insensitive. Oy. Perhaps I can get you a puffy cloud, kittens, and violin music to make you feel better.

shake



I see. You disagree with me, so you make fun of me. Classy. Try looking up ad hominem.

Have a nice day.




Edit: Make that a puppy instead of kitten and we've got a deal!





Ad hominem is only a logical fallacy if it doesn't address the argument. Accusing you and others of being childish has a rational basis, cruel or not.
 
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Rik Van Horn
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Tempest. Teapot. BGG standard issue.
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Derry Salewski
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I want a tea service set with tempest artwork on them.
 
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Rik Van Horn
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scifiantihero wrote:
I want a tea service set with tempest artwork on them.

Those are available at the BGG store for $5 including shipping.
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Derry Salewski
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Rokkr wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:
I want a tea service set with tempest artwork on them.

Those are available at the BGG store for $5 including shipping.


Sweet!
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