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Blood Bowl: Team Manager – The Card Game» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Some staff upgrades too powerful? rss

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Tony Hamen
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I've found that the staff upgrade that gives you a point for every staff upgrade, and the staff upgrade that gives you two points for every team upgrade. Both of these cards will give you at least 5 to 6 points. To a lesser extent the cards that give you a point for every matchup you lose and one for every matchup you win can be a problem too. The problem with these cards, especially the former, is that I have yet to see someone win without them. When my girlfriend and I play, we both fish for these until they are found. Then, one of us just keeps collecting them, and the other tries everything in their power to form a strategy against it.

I'm not saying that team upgrades, star players, and more importantly points are not important. They are definitely important. The problem lies in the fact that there is no downside for collecting staff upgrades. They should be collected no matter what. Not only do they give you a badass ability, they also are worth points at the end of the game as well. Why would you just not collect these? And if that isn't bad enough, if you get a hold of the card that gives you points for other cards, then you just spam the team upgrade at every given opportunity while still competing in the bowls.

The thing I dislike is that while star players usefulness decreases through the game (unless you have a corresponding staff upgrade lol) , staff upgrades do not. Also, the if a player is going a staff upgrade strategy, they can use their special abilities to get more and more staff upgrades. It is a never ending cycle.

This brings me to my original point (sorry if I'm rambling, it's late). If you collect a bunch of these the cards that give you points for other cards will yield you 6-10 points each. How in the HELL should one card be worth more by itself than the bloomin' blood bowl itself?! No other cards yield this many points on average. It doesn't seem right. There is the one card that gives you 5 points for having three freebooters, or three star players on your team, but this is MUCH harder to pull off and for less points.

The only fixes I can think of is to:

-Limit how many staff upgrades you can collect ( I don't like this, because these cards are really the only thing that makes the game non-static)

-Make star players worth a point each (This may overpower them because they are good already. The problem is they are worthless 95% of the time during the last round)

-Simply remove some of the offending staff upgrade cards. Not sure which but definitely the two I stated in the beginning.


Like I've said, I have played this 10 times now, which isn't much, but I haven't seen a player win ONCE without finding the staff upgrade card. Now I must make this perfectly clear: I HAVE ONLY PLAYED THIS 2 PLAYER!! This might have a huge bearing on the effectiveness of some cards versus others, but it is still sad to see it happen when I play with my girlfriend. It has really been a turnoff, and I haven't wanted to play lately. My girlfriend really enjoys this game, and there are things I love about the game. I actually don't mind the randomness at all, and I love the variable teams, the cheating tokens, and the tackle dice. In fact I like everything about the game besides this nasty trend I've seen as of late. What do you guys think?
 
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I haven't played the games tons of times yet so I'm far from an expert, but it seems to me that throughout the major part of the game, star players are much more important than upgrades. Getting a good upgrade is of course great, but I don't think going after them aggressively (and so not going after star players) is a good strategy because you will likely lose most match-ups once your opponent has a significantly better team than you.

I'm also only speaking from 2-player experience.
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John Poskin
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If you know the other player has one of those cards you have to work to keep him from getting more. The cards that give you points for Freebooters and Star players have a big effect if you let the other player have all of the Star Player slots. If you are playing the two player game with starting with 4 highlights it is a bit harder to keep him from getting some points but that is part of the game. If you get those cards you would do the same thing an try and get more of those points.

I have played lots of games and many two player ones. Keeping him away from the team or staff upgrades is key to a win. However we have had several games where that dosent come into play.
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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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You do know that if there's like 3 Coach Upgrade symbols for a highlight win, you draw 3 but only keep 1, right?

Because how the hell are you getting ten Coach Upgrade cards? That's an average of two per game week. Six is feasible but basically close to an all-in strategy. If you succeed at that it's because your opponents are not doing their job.
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Frank Böttcher
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
The FAQ will be out shortly (hoping today) and there should be a variant to address this.


Perfect. I assume it's more "Clarification" because I think the rules are generally very good.

Is there hope that we will also see an expansion in the near future ? 3 or better 6 new teams ? THAT would be really great.
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Tony Hamen
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*sigh* oh well, I knew this is what the responses would be like. Yes, we only picked one staff upgrade if there is two or three listed. Yes, I try my best to keep her from getting them at every corner. But, you can not stop someone from getting the small benefit of a card, unless you try to eliminate them from the card completely (which is silly and a waste of time.) Also, there are a lot of middle benefits that give you staff upgrades as well. It is NOT hard at all to get at least 2, if not 3 per turn. In 4 rounds, with 2 opportunities (that were originally from 4 choices) of highlights, and even some bowls containing staff upgrades, it is extremely easy to average 2-3 staff upgrades per turn. 2-3 times 4? 8-12. It isn't hard to do. I am very conscience of what my opponent is doing, and it isn't like I sit around letting her do it.

Also, it isn't like she isn't getting ANY star players or anything. She is still getting a few throughout the game, they just aren't very important towards the latter half of the game. It's funny that the responses are like "you shouldn't let the other person get staff upgrades", or "you should get star players and you will win". I have tried these things repeatedly.
 
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William Garramone
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I got the Staff Upgrade card you mentioned while playing the Orcs the other night and came in last place. But I do see what you are saying. Our house-rule is that no team may have more than 5 Staff Up-grades and it works just fine. This is the same number of Team Uprgrade cards available and usually by the time the last week is played, if you've maxed out with 5 Staff and 5 Team Up-grades for a total of 10 Up-grade abilities that is quite alot to keep up with anyway.

If you already have 5 Staff Up-grades and you win another, you may discard the the Up-grade you just one or keep it and discard one of your former Staff Up-grades, as long as you don't exceed 5 Staff Up-grades. Seriously, this does keep the game a bit more interesting and forces Team Managers to explore developing Team Up-grades and recruiting Star and Freebooter Players which in turn gives diversity to the game. I can't stand games where there's ONE over-reaching static strategy that gets rushed EVERY TIME the flippin game is played so I clearly understand your frustration, so try this house-rule out and see what you think.

My gaming group also doesn't like the idea that in the case of ties, the the "most developed team" is the winner. So the house-rule we've implemented is that the player who wins the most Tournaments will be the winner in case of ties. If there is still a tie because one or more players are tied for Fan Points AND Tournaments won, then the team who has won the most Match-Ups is the winner. If there is still a tie (unlikely), then the most developed team is the winner. Again, this house-rule puts the FOCUS on winning games and less on spamming the deck for upgrades in order to secure the ultimate victory. I recommend trying this one too. Our group loves the idea of "winning games" to be the deciding factor for determining the overall winner, not the idea of getting Fan Points just because you have Staffing Up-grades.

Cheers!
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Steve Arnold
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Have you tried limiting how many Staff Upgrades she has access to? In a 2 player game you deal out 4 Highlights and the first two that are filled are played with. Thus, if you continually choose one that has few to no Staff Upgrades, the amount of available ones will be massively decreased. She can always go for the one that can yield the most, but that is (assuming you can keep more off the board) at most 2-3 a round, but given that there is only one Tournament with them, it's more like 1-2 a round. And, if you think they are truly the best, abandon all other pursuits in the first round, when there is no benefit from previous Staff Upgrades, and go for it yourself.

I've found from my games that Staff Upgrades are the largest swing part of the game; either you get something useful worth points or you get a dud. I know I've gotten really unlucky draws from the pile. Perhaps she's just gotten really lucky with her draws.
 
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Steve Arnold
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Keesvanloomacklin wrote:

My gaming group also doesn't like the idea that in the case of ties, the the "most developed team" is the winner. So the house-rule we've implemented is that the player who wins the most Tournaments will be the winner in case of ties. If there is still a tie because one or more players are tied for Fan Points AND Tournaments won, then the team who has won the most Match-Ups is the winner. If there is still a tie (unlikely), then the most developed team is the winner. Again, this house-rule puts the FOCUS on winning games and less on spamming the deck for upgrades in order to secure the ultimate victory. I recommend trying this one too. Our group loves the idea of "winning games" to be the deciding factor for determining the overall winner, not the idea of getting Fan Points just because you have Staffing Up-grades.

Cheers!

You've really had that many final score ties to necessitate a houserule? I've played dozens of games, with 2-4 players, and never tied.
 
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Paul Paella
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All of these offending cards have been removed from the base game via the just released FAQ listed in this post, HOORAY!

The FAQ has a variant to play with this cards if you like. Never!
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Kalisto 59
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Ghorro wrote:
All of these offending cards have been removed from the base game via the just released FAQ listed in this post, HOORAY!

The FAQ has a variant to play with this cards if you like. Never!


As he said , read the faq. Finally FFG has released a way to clarify some things. Its me or the BB Team Manager rulebook its terrible?
 
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Stephano Filandro
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Quote:
If you already have 5 Staff Up-grades and you win another, you may discard the the Up-grade you just one or keep it and discard one of your former Staff Up-grades, as long as you don't exceed 5 Staff Up-grades. Seriously, this does keep the game a bit more interesting and forces Team Managers to explore developing Team Up-grades and recruiting Star and Freebooter Players which in turn gives diversity to the game. I can't stand games where there's ONE over-reaching static strategy that gets rushed EVERY TIME the flippin game is played so I clearly understand your frustration, so try this house-rule out and see what you think.


I'm alittle confused, unless there's a card I missed, you can't get more then 5 of any type anyway. You can only pick one per round out of all those you draw. So I don't see how you need a houserull like this, it's already a rule.
 
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Tony Hamen
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Stallion12 wrote:
Quote:
If you already have 5 Staff Up-grades and you win another, you may discard the the Up-grade you just one or keep it and discard one of your former Staff Up-grades, as long as you don't exceed 5 Staff Up-grades. Seriously, this does keep the game a bit more interesting and forces Team Managers to explore developing Team Up-grades and recruiting Star and Freebooter Players which in turn gives diversity to the game. I can't stand games where there's ONE over-reaching static strategy that gets rushed EVERY TIME the flippin game is played so I clearly understand your frustration, so try this house-rule out and see what you think.


I'm alittle confused, unless there's a card I missed, you can't get more then 5 of any type anyway. You can only pick one per round out of all those you draw. So I don't see how you need a houserull like this, it's already a rule.


You pick one upgrade per set of staff upgrade icons. Say there was a matchup you have won with 2 staff upgrade icons on the sideline you have presence, and 3 staff upgrades in the middle, you would draw 2 keep 1, and then draw 3 and keep 1.
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