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Subject: Look what you guys made me do! (spreading the guilt) rss

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J.L. Robert
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Sherman Oaks
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Alphawolf wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:
Or playing the entire EFS series, all linked up.


I would be happy to see at least the two non-announced missing titles
- EFS: Stalingrad
- EFS: Army Group A (Caucasus)

if I remember some of the titles right.

And this is only the "forward" - momentum which leaves us with a bunch of units for the Russian "go-west" movement...

Come on, Vance, hammer out the rest and THEN think about reprints...


I'm with you here, brother! Heaven forbid that EFS goes down the path of Europa...
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Wolfgang Kunz
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Garfink wrote:
Alphawolf wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:

You guys are just no help at all, and merciless to boot! I mean, Merciless!



I know what you mean...

And this is only the friendly and bright side of the guys hanging around here... devil


You evil man... I am reading the rules to Korsun's Pocket (That Mr. Wolfgang sold to me) now and will be putting it through its paces next week...


Let us know on the Monster Guild if you could build the Pocket and how many German units were trapped / could flee. The game I saw at the Con had only a few German units left in the pocket.
 
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Jeb
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wifwendell wrote:
jeb123 wrote:
Wendell, what WWII strategic wargames do you think do a good job of doing the Pacific ... I've heard about problems with WiF regarding ground based air getting wierd with certain ports.


Not sure. WIF at least makes the naval stuff in the Pacific interesting - in WIF you can end up with big naval battles between carriers, etc. There is a debate about whether land-based air is too powerful with respect to carrier air, for sure (more true if using Planes in Flames). And the oddity that using 2d10 combat, putting an armored corps on Truk is a good idea for the defender! (WIF doesn't distinguish between the size of the land area in a hex.)

Actually I like Fire in the Sky: The Great Pacific War 1941-1945. And I haven't really played it but I think Empire of the Sun might be a good one, too.


I've played several games of Empire of the Sun and the card system gives the game a huge amount of variance. A mediocre player can beat a good player with a lucky draw of the right cards at the right time but that could be viewed as a good thing as long as players are not too squeamish about losing a game due to 'luck'.
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jeb123 wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
jeb123 wrote:
Wendell, what WWII strategic wargames do you think do a good job of doing the Pacific ... I've heard about problems with WiF regarding ground based air getting wierd with certain ports.


Not sure. WIF at least makes the naval stuff in the Pacific interesting - in WIF you can end up with big naval battles between carriers, etc. There is a debate about whether land-based air is too powerful with respect to carrier air, for sure (more true if using Planes in Flames). And the oddity that using 2d10 combat, putting an armored corps on Truk is a good idea for the defender! (WIF doesn't distinguish between the size of the land area in a hex.)

Actually I like Fire in the Sky: The Great Pacific War 1941-1945. And I haven't really played it but I think Empire of the Sun might be a good one, too.


I've played several games of Empire of the Sun and the card system gives the game a huge amount of variance. A mediocre player can beat a good player with a lucky draw of the right cards at the right time but that could be viewed as a good thing as long as players are not too squeamish about losing a game due to 'luck'.


Thanks for the vote of confidence. Kevin is kicking me all over the Pacific every time we play. I do not merit "mediocre" status.

But seriously, that accusation is true for about any CDG. Any combination of cards and dice is mathematically possible.
 
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Jeff Kuhn
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jeb123 wrote:

I've played several games of Empire of the Sun and the card system gives the game a huge amount of variance. A mediocre player can beat a good player with a lucky draw of the right cards at the right time but that could be viewed as a good thing as long as players are not too squeamish about losing a game due to 'luck'.


This has not been my experience at all. This game is hugely unforgiving of bad play. Some may think it true of CDGs in general (not in my view, but whatever), but I do not think that applies to EotS. If played well, there is way too much momentum for a "lucky" card here or there to derail that.

Regarding FitS, had that one, looked interesting and had some fun with it at first. But I got rid of it. In my view, it was too prone to some "perfect storm" strategies and that really bugged me. Sometimes the game was over before it even got going. Search for "Japanese knockout" strategies in the forums at CSW for more info. Maybe I just didn't hang in there long enough to really "grok" FitS, but EotS is just so much more elegant and interesting to me.

But enough OT from me, or at this rate Leo will be blaming us for all the PacWar consims he's about to purchase!
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Leo Zappa
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Xookliba wrote:
jeb123 wrote:

I've played several games of Empire of the Sun and the card system gives the game a huge amount of variance. A mediocre player can beat a good player with a lucky draw of the right cards at the right time but that could be viewed as a good thing as long as players are not too squeamish about losing a game due to 'luck'.


This has not been my experience at all. This game is hugely unforgiving of bad play. Some may think it true of CDGs in general (not in my view, but whatever), but I do not think that applies to EotS. If played well, there is way too much momentum for a "lucky" card here or there to derail that.

Regarding FitS, had that one, looked interesting and had some fun with it at first. But I got rid of it. In my view, it was too prone to some "perfect storm" strategies and that really bugged me. Sometimes the game was over before it even got going. Search for "Japanese knockout" strategies in the forums at CSW for more info. Maybe I just didn't hang in there long enough to really "grok" FitS, but EotS is just so much more elegant and interesting to me.

But enough OT from me, or at this rate Leo will be blaming us for all the PacWar consims he's about to purchase!


I am already formulating another round of blame. However, with Asia Engulfed, World War II: Pacific Theater of Operations, and Victory in the Pacific already in hand, I am currently satisfied with my Pacific games. Don't worry, though, I will find something else to blame on you guys soon enough! In fact, this thread:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/768726/new-campaign-has-...
...is making me tempted to go back out to eBay to hunt down a copy of this game, one I've thought about on and off for some years.
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Steve Herron
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desertfox2004 wrote:
Xookliba wrote:
jeb123 wrote:

I've played several games of Empire of the Sun and the card system gives the game a huge amount of variance. A mediocre player can beat a good player with a lucky draw of the right cards at the right time but that could be viewed as a good thing as long as players are not too squeamish about losing a game due to 'luck'.


This has not been my experience at all. This game is hugely unforgiving of bad play. Some may think it true of CDGs in general (not in my view, but whatever), but I do not think that applies to EotS. If played well, there is way too much momentum for a "lucky" card here or there to derail that.

Regarding FitS, had that one, looked interesting and had some fun with it at first. But I got rid of it. In my view, it was too prone to some "perfect storm" strategies and that really bugged me. Sometimes the game was over before it even got going. Search for "Japanese knockout" strategies in the forums at CSW for more info. Maybe I just didn't hang in there long enough to really "grok" FitS, but EotS is just so much more elegant and interesting to me.

But enough OT from me, or at this rate Leo will be blaming us for all the PacWar consims he's about to purchase!


I am already formulating another round of blame. However, with Asia Engulfed, World War II: Pacific Theater of Operations, and Victory in the Pacific already in hand, I am currently satisfied with my Pacific games. Don't worry, though, I will find something else to blame on you guys soon enough! In fact, this thread:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/768726/new-campaign-has-...
...is making me tempted to go back out to eBay to hunt down a copy of this game, one I've thought about on and off for some years.


Doesn't look like it sells for big bucks.
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Jeb
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Xookliba wrote:
jeb123 wrote:

I've played several games of Empire of the Sun and the card system gives the game a huge amount of variance. A mediocre player can beat a good player with a lucky draw of the right cards at the right time but that could be viewed as a good thing as long as players are not too squeamish about losing a game due to 'luck'.


This has not been my experience at all. This game is hugely unforgiving of bad play. Some may think it true of CDGs in general (not in my view, but whatever), but I do not think that applies to EotS. If played well, there is way too much momentum for a "lucky" card here or there to derail that.

Regarding FitS, had that one, looked interesting and had some fun with it at first. But I got rid of it. In my view, it was too prone to some "perfect storm" strategies and that really bugged me. Sometimes the game was over before it even got going. Search for "Japanese knockout" strategies in the forums at CSW for more info. Maybe I just didn't hang in there long enough to really "grok" FitS, but EotS is just so much more elegant and interesting to me.


First, just to clarify ... I really like EotS ... I have played it three times and won all three games ... twice against very experienced players ... twice as the allies and once as the Japanese so this isn't about sour grapes.

No doubt that there is a big learning curve ... so experienced players will win alot ... but that's different from luck not being a big influence in the game.

Also, the Japanese player can trash the allies with early war in Europe victory cards and VP cards. And with really big even strength battles .. an early decisive loss or two can be catastrophic for the loser .. remember, you can get 1/3 to 1/2 your navy involved in the larger battles early in the game.
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A fistful of War in Europe cards for the Japanese player early in the game in brutal, especially if the Allied player cannot draw them.

But again, that is the nature of CDGs: I played Washington's War and drew 2 War Ends cards, 3 battle cards, and 2 events. Nothing but crud. I couldn't move a single army. It happens.

What I do like, though, is that while possible and not probable, this is part of the learning experience. If the war in Europe truly went badly and America had a "Europe first" policy, then yeah, Japan will probably be able to negotiate peace and hold on to a lot of their conquests. Likewise, in WaW, he intentionally leaves the possibility that the Declaration of Independence could have been signed after 1776, and the longer it takes, the less its importance.

Overall, if you play the games enough, you'll see the improbable hands show up and kill the game, and you'll see the vast majority of them play the way they should. And with the exception of the rare outliers, the better player will win. It's not a game prone to wild swings of luck, my opponent has confirmed that much.
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