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Subject: Why plastic? rss

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Kamu
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Sorry if this is just dumb, but it has been in my head for some time; and with today's update, I just had to ask: what are the plastic pieces for?

I haven't read the rules (yes, I backed the proyect and hardly know what this is about), but I get everything so far. The dice, the cards, the boards. Having high quality components is great, but I'm unable to understand why the fuss about plastic.

I'd rather have dice in different colors (to match the ships' colors.. because they're used to track ship things, right?), definitely linen-finish cards, good quality cardstock (no need to overkill it, just good enough), engraved dice (please, please), a sturdy box and whatever fully-playtested expansions they can come up with. Good (or great, if that can be done) components that make sense.

So, where is the plastic going and why is it important?
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Ryan Lorence Syfargo
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I believe update #9 stated this:

"I'm really leaning toward pimped board stock and plastic pieces. Instead of moving the unit cards around, you would get to move actual small ships in the Gunship colors."

Until i see what the plastic ships look like, i'd prefer upgraded boards and cards or more cards :)
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Jayson Stevens
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wickedwretch wrote:
what are the plastic pieces for?


"To look cool and pretty"

That's all ANY plastic pieces are for.

OK, here's how it looks now.

There are 3 movement areas.

RED Carrier Zone
NEUTRAL Space
BLUE Carrier Zone

The Red fighters and gunship start at the Red Carrier (obviously)
You can move the gunship and fighters between zones.

Currently, you use 2 cards for this.
One card shows a Gunship
The other shows the Fighters.

When you move one to the Neutral area, you move the card there to show it.

The plastic upgrade would have actual plastic ship pieces to move around instead of cards.
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Thomas Staudt
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And my assumption was that you get the plastic ships _on_top_ of the cards so that you could choose which one you like better.

Is that incorrect?
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Juan Pardo
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Jayson, so you would get four minis of fighters and four minis of the gunships? you would have to keep using the fighters card to keep track of their number.If this is the case I would rather upgrade the actual gaming material.

The use of minis instead of the ships cards will reduce slighty the gaming surface required, but think is too much money for such a small improvement. That money could be used for other issues or to allow Steve to build a cash cushion for further projects and reward his 20 years dedication to his hobby. I´m really looking forward into the campaign mode and the missions, that would greatly improve the gaming experience much more than mere minis. For example the asteroids mini-expansion seems a very nice idea.

On the other side if you get 12 figther minis per side, then you will not need the fighter card to keep track of their casualties. In this case you may be able to split the figthers, and leave them in different places; that could be interesting and add more options to the game.

Being for the current moment an abstract areas game, think there is no need to have minis. If the game evolve into something like wings of war or star warrior, the minis will be a must, but for the current moment are a luxury items more than an asset.
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Michael Matecha
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I'd rather see Steve spend his time and funds making the game and existing components better rather than add more to it or change to plastic.
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Jack Reda
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You can rest assured that Steve IS spending his time and funds making every single aspect of the game the best it can be. I think the minis will also fall into that category. The cards he's talking about replacing the minis with are just the ones that are used to indicate where the fighters and gunships are located in relation to the carriers. The cards work fine, and the minis will work fine as well. You'll still have the fighters board that indicated how many you have left with the hit tokens.
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Thomas Staudt
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D6Frog wrote:

...
I could see a mini for your gunship/fighter to show their location (instead of a card) being pretty cool if the mini is detailed and looks like the gunship/fighter.
...


Good point. I think you need to see at first glance that the minis resemble the ships on the cards, if they are just generic ships (like re-using the Eminent Domain / Eclipse ships for the umpteenth time) this would likely not enhance the experience.
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Charlie Theel
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I for one like the idea of a couple minis for tracking the movement/location of ships. Much better than using cards.
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If you go to the Gunship Kickstarter page, after the #14 update, you are asked to leave a comment regarding your preference for plastic units vs upgraded cards and boards. I know Steve frequents these forums, but your comments might go further if they were added to the Kickstarter page, as well.

Just a suggestion.

I for one am a Kickstart supporter of this project, and would be happy with the upgraded components, to be sure. However, if enough supporters bring about the stretch goal for plastic minis, I would certainly love to have them. Right now, there is so much cool stuff already in the works, that anything beyond this point is just icing on the cake!
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Steve Wood
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Hi guys,

Plastic is off the table for now as it is just too expensive and we need to build up quite a large funding "cushion" for now.

But definitely check out Update #14 as he said - it explains a lot and it looks like there is overwhelming support for better boards and cards vs. plastic so that is where we are going.

I have a new idea sent by a Backer to deal with this issue and it is going to be both awesome and inexpensive!

Thanks!

Steve
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Bryan Lane
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I would imagine the target for plastic is probably a lot higher due to all the one-off colors for the custom boards.

Personally, I don't care as much about plastic as I do about the HBC being dropped. If it's higher quality boards and cards or plastic minis... I really don't need minis. I like that some more weapon options are coming out as stretch goals, as I honestly didn't feel there was enough customization out of the box.

40 more days... it'll be interesting to see how this campaign shapes up. I'm still on the fence... I'm still hoping they reintroduce the HBC. I might yet pledge without it, but for now I'm playing wait-and-see.
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Steve Wood
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And Mr. d6Frog

Engraved Dice ARE happening! Just ironing out the last details!

Steve
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Charlie Theel
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fastlane wrote:
I would imagine the target for plastic is probably a lot higher due to all the one-off colors for the custom boards.

Personally, I don't care as much about plastic as I do about the HBC being dropped. If it's higher quality boards and cards or plastic minis... I really don't need minis. I like that some more weapon options are coming out as stretch goals, as I honestly didn't feel there was enough customization out of the box.

40 more days... it'll be interesting to see how this campaign shapes up. I'm still on the fence... I'm still hoping they reintroduce the HBC. I might yet pledge without it, but for now I'm playing wait-and-see.


Usually the plastic injection molds themselves are a huge cost when dealing with plastic minis (the minis themselves are cheap once the molds are in place). This is why games like Eclipse and Eminent Domain went with existing molds for their ships.

Plastic ships would have been nice but I'm not disapointed. Upgraded boards will certainly be appreciated.
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Kamu
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I've been keeping an eye on this and I'm well aware of the updates. I just wasn't unsure of the use for the minis. They'd be good, but only if everything else is great. I'd rather have more and better stuff before plastic ships.

Edit: And thanks, Steve, for answering all our silly inquiries. Your passion is the best guarantee of quality we can have.
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Bryan Lane
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charlest wrote:
fastlane wrote:
I would imagine the target for plastic is probably a lot higher due to all the one-off colors for the custom boards.

Personally, I don't care as much about plastic as I do about the HBC being dropped. If it's higher quality boards and cards or plastic minis... I really don't need minis. I like that some more weapon options are coming out as stretch goals, as I honestly didn't feel there was enough customization out of the box.

40 more days... it'll be interesting to see how this campaign shapes up. I'm still on the fence... I'm still hoping they reintroduce the HBC. I might yet pledge without it, but for now I'm playing wait-and-see.


Usually the plastic injection molds themselves are a huge cost when dealing with plastic minis (the minis themselves are cheap once the molds are in place). This is why games like Eclipse and Eminent Domain went with existing molds for their ships.

Plastic ships would have been nice but I'm not disapointed. Upgraded boards will certainly be appreciated.


I realize that, but it's one thing to do a great big batch in a couple of colors and a different matter to be doing 50 black, 5 aqua, 2yellow, an orange, 4 dark grey, 3 light grey, 5 hot pink, etc. That's all I'm saying.
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Steve Wood
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IF we end up with plastic, I'm only doing the 4 basic colors and maybe a black or silver set to use if you have custom boards. Those should match any ship.

And yes, I WILL fight you over getting to be Mr.Black! (Reservoir Dogs reference)

lol
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Charlie Theel
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Escape Pod Games wrote:
And yes, I WILL fight you over getting to be Mr.Black! (Reservoir Dogs reference)

lol


You can have Black, Mr. Pink is where it's at.
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Michael Matecha
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I don't see the need for plastic in the base game but I wouldn't mind some nicely detailed and accurate ships in an expansion or as an optional add-on.

If the gunship mini is mounted on a stand I can display it on my desk!

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Stoic Bird
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Personally, I actively dislike plastic pieces in games. I'd much rather have cardboard.
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Lester Festertester
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I put forward this idea on KS:
Idea! How about polystyrene ships that you punch out and assemble just like The Star Wars PocketModel TCG or Wizkids old Pirates game. I found that the looked quite good and you could use the existing ship art, and they got to be WAY cheaper to make.
What do ya think.
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Kamu
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necroloid123 wrote:
I put forward this idea on KS:
Idea! How about polystyrene ships that you punch out and assemble just like The Star Wars PocketModel TCG or Wizkids old Pirates game. I found that the looked quite good and you could use the existing ship art, and they got to be WAY cheaper to make.
What do ya think.

I support it entirely and I believe that's what Steve was talking about when me mentioned some cool idea, which was cheap to implement.
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Steve Wood
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I was actually going to reply to this...

YES. What I am going to do is add ships that are die-cut out of the same thick punchboard material as the fighter tokens. Think of the Mountain pieces in Smallworld but a little bigger.

I think this is the way to go - I imagine adding plastic to Smallworld and it would seem so...cheap.

I can't do the buildable minis because I think WotC decided they own that idea and started suing everyone, if I remember correctly.

Thanks for this idea, even if I took it in a different direction.

Steve
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Lester Festertester
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wickedwretch wrote:
necroloid123 wrote:
I put forward this idea on KS:
Idea! How about polystyrene ships that you punch out and assemble just like The Star Wars PocketModel TCG or Wizkids old Pirates game. I found that the looked quite good and you could use the existing ship art, and they got to be WAY cheaper to make.
What do ya think.

I support it entirely and I believe that's what Steve was talking about when me mentioned some cool idea, which was cheap to implement.

That would be cool. Would be nice to know that I helped out with an idea.
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Steve Wood
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If someone could research what happened with this lawsuit that would be helpful. Perhaps I can do a simple ship similar to the "First Player" token from Cargo Noir.

But I do not want WotC as an enemy - they have lots of lawyers and LOVE to use them!

Steve
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