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Blood Bowl: Team Manager – The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: FAQ is out rss

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Paul Paella
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Get the Blood Bowl: Team Manager FAQ directly from FFG's website.

One major change in the FAQ, that I feel greatly improves the game, is taking out the following radical end of game fan scoring Staff Upgrade cards:

Hall of Famers
Fan Club Enrollment
We'll Get'Em Next Season
Staffing Officer x2
Talent Scout x2

The FAQ has a variant rule to put these cards back into the game if you like. They'll definitely stay out of all games we play. Enjoy!
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Jaime Lawrence
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I don't think they make a tremendous difference, especially given the fact that there's so many of them. They provide more paths to victory, which is a good thing!
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Brad Miller
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If someone gets two of them, yeah, they can be total game winners. Going to read the FAQ now.
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Chris G
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They clarified the ones that lead to confusion. The nerfing of staff upgrades was unexpected. But I can see the justification. All in all it's a pretty straightforward game. Love this game.
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Scott L
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A few nice clarifications in the FAQ. I'm glad it's finally out. Looks like I have been playing the "correct" way.

There are a few questions in there that I think weren't necessary (i.e. the answer was obvious), but I guess it's good to get everything clear.
 
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Blue Jackal
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Windopaene wrote:
If someone gets two of them, yeah, they can be total game winners.


Yeah, I like them, but drawing the right staff upgrade card can be a difference between 1 point and 10 points. One or two games ago, I ended up with 60+ points in a 3 player game because I got lots of good Staff upgrades. However, I did have the Star Players / Staff Upgrades / Team Upgrades that were necessary to fulfill their conditions.

Before the FAQ, I house-ruled that you couldn't have more than 1 copy of a Staff Upgrade, after a friend scored 20 points from two copies of the "1 point per Staff Upgrade" card.

I do think they might be too powerful.
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Jaime Lawrence
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I agree that they can be that way, but I've only seen it happen once in the dozen or so games I've had. I think it's fine. It kind of annoys me that playing with the cards as written is a 'variant' now.
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Frank La Terra
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I think it's a stupid change for the FAQ.
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Paul Paella
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After many plays our games revolve around these cards and the winner of every game we play is the player who draws the most of them. Period. That's why they are broken, like any game element that dictates play and detracts from all other winning strategies.

Just add them to your game if you like them.
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Paul Hackman
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Appreciate the FAQ. FFG seem to make clear and detailed FAQs, likely because they've had so much practice.

Would appreciate even more if future games didn't have to make significant changes to eliminate problems that should have been apparent in playtesting.

Now, time to focus on the expansion!
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MGS
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
I think it's a stupid change for the FAQ.


I really appreciate when they work to make the game better and this is clearly the intention here. I thought they should have done the same with Elder Sign. That was a tremendous wasted opportunity and that game remains weak.
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Frank La Terra
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Ronaldo wrote:
Mr Skeletor wrote:
I think it's a stupid change for the FAQ.


I really appreciate when they work to make the game better and this is clearly the intention here. I thought they should have done the same with Elder Sign. That was a tremendous wasted opportunity and that game remains weak.


The game was perfectly playable yesterday. I never had the impression that most people had a problem with these cards.
The better fix - if one was needed - was to simply not allow you to play duplicates.
Otherwise this was a totally un-needed change that makes a very solid and highly rated game look broken out of the box.
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Jaime Lawrence
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I'm with Skeletor. The game was fine without a fix and now looks like they made some sort of error in making it.

For the record, I think Elder Sign is great too.
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CJ
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I see the Dwarves' Rigourous Training card has been boosted slightly.
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Michael D. Kelley
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We were already playing with a variant that removed most of these staff upgrades, so I'm pretty happy with this decision. But hey, play with them if you like them!
And they didn't make the game broken, necessarily. But as we played, we noted that there was rarely a good reason to go for anything besides staff upgrades when the option was available. Taking these cards out expands the strategic possibilities, in my view... a very good thing.
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CJ
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I was thinking about this after I read the FAQ. Whilst the FAQ is welcome it does strike me that FFG really aren't bothering their arses to fully playtest their games. Removing 7 cards from the upgrade deck (5 unique cards) and moving them to a variant is no small alteration. I love this game as much as the next one but I really do have to wonder at the diligence shown towards this product...
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MGS
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Hida Mann wrote:
I'm with Skeletor. The game was fine without a fix and now looks like they made some sort of error in making it.

For the record, I think Elder Sign is great too.


I really appreciate FFG being more concerned in providing a better balanced game than with appearances. This is the first time they show me they care about their small box games and I think of them more highly now.

Elder Sign is poorly balanced. It is too easy for the players to win. It was either poorly designed or, if this was the intended difficulty level, then it is just not suited to me. But, the high number of redundant threads with variants to increase the difficulty, suggests that it is not just me.
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Guido Gloor
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elgin_j wrote:
I was thinking about this after I read the FAQ. Whilst the FAQ is welcome it does strike me that FFG really aren't bothering their arses to fully playtest their games. Removing 7 cards from the upgrade deck (5 unique cards) and moving them to a variant is no small alteration. I love this game as much as the next one but I really do have to wonder at the diligence shown towards this product...

I present this as evidence A in the case study concerning whether Skeletor's assessment was correct
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Chris G
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I think removing the cards will definitely lower some of the last minute luck wins, which will make the game more competitive as you can't just throw away your turns to rely on a few key staff cards.

But I might try the variant where you can't play multiples of the same types of those cards. Could be a happy medium.
 
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Oliver Seidel
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kryyst wrote:
I think removing the cards will definitely lower some of the last minute luck wins, which will make the game more competitive as you can't just throw away your turns to rely on a few key staff cards.

But I might try the variant where you can't play multiples of the same types of those cards. Could be a happy medium.


I guess that i will also play it that way. After drawing an upgrade card thats already in the team zone just shuffle it into the deck and draw a new one.
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Matt Shinners
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I've played this game three times. The first time, two different people at the table got one each of the fan-increasing-for-each-other-upgrade upgrade cards. The next two games, I went all out to get as many upgrade cards as possible and ended up winning big.

While I don't think they're broken, it's a very strong strategy that gives a huge advantage to someone who has played before (moreso than just a general knowledge of the cards in a regular card-driven game). Knowledge of these cards define a certain strategy that you wouldn't get without knowing of them; as opposed to a strategy of 'win as many headlines as possible' or 'try to win a few of everything' which are both strategies that suggest themselves just based on the rules. If I explained this game to a new person, I'd either have to throttle back my play on those upgrades until they knew the game or I'd have to tell them 'go for the staff upgrades/prevent one person from getting a lot of staff upgrades'.

I'm happy to remove those cards from a few games. I'd probably put them back in after a few games with the same group (i.e. play a few low salary cap games, then jump to the high salary cap). In fact, I think FFG should have tiered it like that - make two levels of games based on experience, and call it low- vs. high-salary cap. That would sit better, I think.
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Brad Miller
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kryyst wrote:
I think removing the cards will definitely lower some of the last minute luck wins, which will make the game more competitive as you can't just throw away your turns to rely on a few key staff cards.

But I might try the variant where you can't play multiples of the same types of those cards. Could be a happy medium.


Yep. I can see how having one of them, if you draw it early, can lead you to make further game decisions influenced towards that condition, which is pretty neat. But getting two of them as the game is ending to pick up 10-20 free points is whacked, and has happened in about a third of my games of this...
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Brad Miller
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Hida Mann wrote:
I'm with Skeletor. The game was fine without a fix and now looks like they made some sort of error in making it.


I think it is their admission that they did in fact make a mistake, are owning up to it, and in their view, Mr Skeletor is wrong about the game being fine as it is.

It's not like they haven't banned/restricted cards in their LCGs like Cthulhu and Warhammer before.

EDIT: And it's a good thing as it means they are still thinking about the game and might be considering putting new teams out. (See the reference to Star Players and what conference(s) they come from)
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Paul Paella
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I applaud FFG for making a change to the game to fix problems, and yes, these cards were a problem. The absence of the problem occurring in your games doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

Our group played enough to know that the only way to compete in the game was to stockpile star players and accumulate as many Staff Upgrade cards as possible. One, to increase the chance of you auto-winning the game by drawing the overpowered cards, and two, decreasing the chance that your opponents will draw these cards. Winners were determined by who was lucky enough to draw these overpowered cards, not by the decisions they made during play that didn't involve these overpowered cards.

Lastly, removing these cards will now put at least some importance on winning the Blood Bowl Spike card. Before, the number of fans gained from winning the Blood Bowl were insignificant compared to getting more Staff Upgrade cards to increase your chance at drawing one of the overpowered cards. No one bothered trying to win the Blood Bowl, the fan prize wasn't worth it compared to getting more Staff Upgrade cards.
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Henry Coleman
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
Ronaldo wrote:
Mr Skeletor wrote:
I think it's a stupid change for the FAQ.


I really appreciate when they work to make the game better and this is clearly the intention here. I thought they should have done the same with Elder Sign. That was a tremendous wasted opportunity and that game remains weak.


The game was perfectly playable yesterday. I never had the impression that most people had a problem with these cards.
The better fix - if one was needed - was to simply not allow you to play duplicates.
Otherwise this was a totally un-needed change that makes a very solid and highly rated game look broken out of the box.


100% agree. I can see the argument for duplicate cards, but then again I love the random elements of the game so I'm not too fussed about that either.

Whilst fishing for the staff upgrade cards like staffing office can often be a good tactic in the first round or two, the other players know you have these cards and can easily deny you access to the highlights you need to fulfill them.
 
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