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Subject: Can you use teleport to enter final combat? rss

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John Weier
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So here's the situation:

Evil Black Old Goat is revealed, the eye is one space away from awakening, Rotten Magi is within five spaces of the pit and is last to go in the cycle. At the end of his turn he uses special ability to teleport adjacent to the goat (the hex South West of the pit). Since it's now a new cycle, the eye moves and the goat awakens. We roll for its heading, he's going to move East, but before he actually starts to move, the Magi is adjacent. Does he enter combat with the Magi immediately, and if so is it legal that Magi used his special power to get in that position?

I can't find it at the moment, but I remember reading something about how you can't use your special power to defeat an awakened evil, does this count since he technically didn't win the combat during the turn he used the power?

Note: the Magi didn't actually do the teleport in our game, it just came up as an "oh crap, could I have done that and won?" discussion after the goat strolled right up to another Necro squad and got slaughtered.

(That goat's pretty weak, by the way. It seemed a bit random and anti-climatic, since in the end the winner was determined merely by the direction the goat moved. If he had gone North near the other Necro squad, that player would have won instead. I think I might house-rule the goat to be stronger, maybe all 16's so he at least puts up a good challenge? Or at least that he moves towards the player with the most kill points, so it feels like you at least earned the easy win by having the most kills?)
 
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Mark Mitchell
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If a necro uses the special power on the same turn an awakened is defeated by that necro then that necro is instantly destroyed. Not sure what happens to the awakened.
 
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nathan hayden
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gamecat_uk wrote:
If a necro uses the special power on the same turn an awakened is defeated by that necro then that necro is instantly destroyed. Not sure what happens to the awakened.


absolutely correct. as for the awakened evil. it remains to be beaten. so essentially the player will either forfeit or take his turn back and grumble that his power is useless in what he/she thought was a game winning move.
 
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nathan hayden
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slumcat wrote:
So here's the situation:
(That goat's pretty weak, by the way. It seemed a bit random and anti-climatic, since in the end the winner was determined merely by the direction the goat moved. If he had gone North near the other Necro squad, that player would have won instead. I think I might house-rule the goat to be stronger, maybe all 16's so he at least puts up a good challenge? Or at least that he moves towards the player with the most kill points, so it feels like you at least earned the easy win by having the most kills?)


The Goat is more of an advanced creature. A lot of stuff can occur with this goat that may be just too cumbersome to endure in a learning game.

When a necromancer fights the goat, before the fight, the goat eviscerates every creature in the Necromancer's Squad and all spells or items are useless. So the battle would be a 12 to 6 raw attribute battle. Your Necromancer will probably win, but with a D12 it is not certain.

This endgame is a bit random in the goat's wild movement). The initial way the Goat was played in testing, which we enjoyed, was the goat would roll a D4 for a direction when Awakened. He would have to continue in that direction at the beginning of every Cycle (breaking rock paths if needed). Everything else was the same, except the Goat would go in just the one direction. If the goat reached the end of the players table all players would lose.

We changed it to the 'change direction every turn' so players on one side of the table would not get the tactical advantage on the goat. We really enjoyed the initial method, but went with the change in direction every turn in the end. Perhaps you may want to try the other less random method, tactically it will favor one side of the table. But since the Necromancers must move to kill the goat it may leave Chthonic Crystals vulnerable as well.
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John Weier
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gamecat_uk wrote:
If a necro uses the special power on the same turn an awakened is defeated by that necro then that necro is instantly destroyed. Not sure what happens to the awakened.

Right, but this doesn't appear to apply to the Magi in the situation I described above. He would use the teleport on his turn, but his turn is entirely finished before the goat awakens. When the eye moves at the end of the cycle, he is already right next to the goat and thus is immediately forced into combat, so he wouldn't technically win "in the same turn", although the result would be effectively the same since he gets to use his special power just before the awakening to set himself up for an immediate win (well not really immediate, since the combat is not guaranteed, but the odds are certainly in favor of the Necro).

I guess I'm nitpicking a bit here. It's a fairly chaotic endgame anyway, so who cares if the Magi is able to warp in for the win, the lead up to that is still plenty of fun and good on him for being in the right place at the right time. It was just a hypothetical that came up that I thought was interesting.

Thanks for all the replies though, I really love the game!
 
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Ian Allen
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Wouldn't it be fun if the goat appeared on one of the 4 random starting crystals (or maybe the one with the most hexes between it and the next evil wizard) and moved full speed towards the middle pit. If it gets there without being killed, then it jumps down the hole and everyone dies/loses.

I agree that the odds of it beating a players evil wizard with 6's vs 12's is pretty weak. Yes it could happen, but is that really a factor?

If I play this game 6 times this year and the goat gets really lucky and gets chosen twice, am I likely to see it beat someone rather than getting owned? Not really.

It should be stronger. Destroy all the players other cards/bonuses etc. is fine, but the goat should be at least 9's or even 12's all around to make the final combat exciting instead of an almost sure thing.

The current way is a bit boring, but I would be sweating and thinking twice if we both had 12's and there was a possibility it would kill me and someone else would get a crack at it.

In my opinion, I would rather die to the goat and someone else kill it (or have it wipe out all the other evil wizards) in exciting battles than to just run up and bop it on the head and it fall over.
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John Weier
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glookose wrote:
Wouldn't it be fun if the goat appeared on one of the 4 random starting crystals (or maybe the one with the most hexes between it and the next evil wizard) and moved full speed towards the middle pit. If it gets there without being killed, then it jumps down the hole and everyone dies/loses.

I agree that the odds of it beating a players evil wizard with 6's vs 12's is pretty weak. Yes it could happen, but is that really a factor?

If I play this game 6 times this year and the goat gets really lucky and gets chosen twice, am I likely to see it beat someone rather than getting owned? Not really.

It should be stronger. Destroy all the players other cards/bonuses etc. is fine, but the goat should be at least 9's or even 12's all around to make the final combat exciting instead of an almost sure thing.

The current way is a bit boring, but I would be sweating and thinking twice if we both had 12's and there was a possibility it would kill me and someone else would get a crack at it.

In my opinion, I would rather die to the goat and someone else kill it (or have it wipe out all the other evil wizards) in exciting battles than to just run up and bop it on the head and it fall over.

Agreed. I think it's a fun concept taking out the other creatures as he runs by, but being so weak it just comes down to some luck of the die rolls as to who wins. Maybe if he were quite a bit stronger, but you were still allowed to use items or spells (but not other creatures) so that it at least feels like some of your preparations matter in the end. That way when the goat shows up everyone could start focusing more on items and spells to prepare their Necro (while I focus on an army of creatures and have them sneak up to crush their crystals for the win!).
 
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nathan hayden
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You can absolutely teleport before he awakes and kill him when he does. You would have to wait for a turn in the deadly pit room, which could be fatal.

The 6 vs 12 issue. I personally really like the odds as I see it as a carrot of sorts, also since each Necromancer has an ancient dagger (reflected in the 12 weapon attribute) they can carve up the goat in it's goat like form, not it's concentrated visceral evil form.

If you want to house rule the goat from 6 to 9 or 12 you can for sure. Let us know how you enjoy it. I think of the goat sort of like a moving pit. Like the Pit of Infinite Shadow but moving about the board unpredictably. The Necromancer must venture forth to and fight this goat alone to achieve victory (if aiming for the Awakened Evil victory). I would be less likely to try to kill it if the odds were even. My effort for moving forth has a good chance of not paying off, so I may rather turtle, but that is me and the way I like to play odds. I'd like to think I had a good chance.

But thematically once locked in a battle with a Necromancer and his dagger the pure force of evil just becomes a measly old goat. A goat that wipes away every other creature or item, but against the ancient dagger he's just mean livestock.
 
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Mark Mitchell
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Ahh I see.

I'm really hoping I can get a copy in the UK, have read the rulebook and love how fiendishly streamlined the ideas are as well as varied. Combat/items/dungeon crawl and map changing options plus lots of spells/events and of course wandering creatures. Some really great ideas that remind me of the rich experience I have with Earth reborn, but with a quicker setup time.

Nathan how much would postage be to uk as there is a chance I will not be able to het a copy here due to limited availability. Thnx m
 
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John Weier
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dragonblaster wrote:
You would have to wait for a turn in the deadly pit room, which could be fatal.


What do you mean by this? Do we have to wait an entire cycle after the Awakening before we are allowed to kill the goat?

In this scenario, the Magi was the last player in the cycle, and saw that the eye would be moving to the Awakening right after his turn, so as we understand the rules he could have just warped there and ended his turn, then immediately gone into combat after the eye moves and the goat wakes up. Is that right?
 
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nathan hayden
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slumcat wrote:
dragonblaster wrote:
You would have to wait for a turn in the deadly pit room, which could be fatal.


What do you mean by this? Do we have to wait an entire cycle after the Awakening before we are allowed to kill the goat?

In this scenario, the Magi was the last player in the cycle, and saw that the eye would be moving to the Awakening right after his turn, so as we understand the rules he could have just warped there and ended his turn, then immediately gone into combat after the eye moves and the goat wakes up. Is that right?


You are correct. I was just saying in other cases. In case Magi was not last player. It would be dangerous to hang out there. If he happened to be the last player and could score that position, that would be very advantageous, and legal. But these abilities are supposed to have advantageous moments.


 
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