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Subject: unrevealed victory? rss

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bingo wermers

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Just finished a three player game. All human until sleeper. Circumstances led to myself and the other human both thrown in brig(I was boomer) the unrevealed cylon player chose not to reveal and therefore stay aboard galactica. He basically chipped away until he jumped the ship with the track at -3 and only two pop left. Humans lost. My question is, did he win, staying unrevealed?
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Chris J Davis
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bingosunday wrote:
Just finished a three player game. All human until sleeper. Circumstances led to myself and the other human both thrown in brig(I was boomer) the unrevealed cylon player chose not to reveal and therefore stay aboard galactica. He basically chipped away until he jumped the ship with the track at -3 and only two pop left. Humans lost. My question is, did he win, staying unrevealed?


Yes, of course he did!
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Jordan Alexander
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Yes he did, just because he was unrevealed doesn't mean he wasn't a cylon.
You are a cylon the moment you obtain the cylon card.


Ive never played a 3player game before, but have managed to win as a lone hidden cylon from start to finish once before, which was very satisfying.
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Joe Reil
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j0rdan wrote:
Ive never played a 3player game before, but have managed to win as a lone hidden cylon from start to finish once before, which was very satisfying.


Likewise, just once for me. 5-player and I pulled both Cylon loyalty cards. I did "soft" reveal by taking actions that clearly marked me as a Cylon, but the game was over before they could do anything about it.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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I still haven't done this myself, but I would say that this is the best type of Cylon victory. Heck, someday I want to play a game where the other players don't even know I'm a Cylon until I deal the final, killing blow to them.
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BT Carpenter
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Best kind of win.
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Edward
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On the other hand, we've had a game where everyone loses. That's right, humans lost pre-sleeper and there wasn't a Cylon among us.

It should come as no surprise that Cylons usually win in our group ...
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ackmondual
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bingosunday wrote:
Just finished a three player game. All human until sleeper. Circumstances led to myself and the other human both thrown in brig(I was boomer) the unrevealed cylon player chose not to reveal and therefore stay aboard galactica. He basically chipped away until he jumped the ship with the track at -3 and only two pop left. Humans lost. My question is, did he win, staying unrevealed?


An unrevealed cylon is still a cylon, so yes, they do get the victory if humans lose. Being a cylon always means you want the humans to lose, but being unrevealed vs. reveal just means you play differently.

There was some discussion (technicalities and gameplay-wise) about whether or not you're supposed to reveal loyalty cards or not when the game ends (I say that you're supposed to, for cases just like this to know if there were any unrevealed cylons; and contrast that to Personal Goals In Exodus which say you do reveal them if humans win), but I don't remember how it ended
 
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Robert Stewart
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ackmondual wrote:
There was some discussion (technicalities and gameplay-wise) about whether or not you're supposed to reveal loyalty cards or not when the game ends (I say that you're supposed to, for cases just like this to know if there were any unrevealed cylons; and contrast that to Personal Goals In Exodus which say you do reveal them if humans win), but I don't remember how it ended


My general feeling is that you need to actually show your cards if you want to claim you win, whatever game you're playing.

In BSG specifically, I'd expect players to reveal their loyalty at the end of the game, but I wouldn't press matters if someone refused. In fact, when not playing with Conflicted Loyalties, we often don't bother to look at the YANAC cards once the Cylons have exposed themselves...

If I were put on the spot and told to make a ruling, I'd say that a player can insist on not revealing their loyalty cards after the game, but they then get assumed to have been on the losing side (even if that would make them the third Cylon...) - I'd have to think about how to handle Personal Goals - their presence probably means you should always reveal all loyalty cards at the end of the game in order to avoid the situation where one player can choose to reveal and lose with the Humans, or not reveal and lose with the Cylons...
 
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Darren Nakamura
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If you're playing with Personal Goals, if somebody doesn't reveal his Personal Goal Loyalty Card at the end of the game, I'd consider that cheating.
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Mooseared Ferenczy
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If you only win as a cylon with a revealed loyalty card, why not never reveal and just play as a human and then claim that because the card was never revealed so you were never really a cylon?
And if you neglected to reveal a personal goal after humans had won, that is cheating in my book.
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ackmondual
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Dexter345 wrote:
If you're playing with Personal Goals, if somebody doesn't reveal his Personal Goal Loyalty Card at the end of the game, I'd consider that cheating.
I don't think that discussion was pertaining to PG. If it were, it would've been pretty clear cut.
 
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Robert Stewart
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Dexter345 wrote:
If you're playing with Personal Goals, if somebody doesn't reveal his Personal Goal Loyalty Card at the end of the game, I'd consider that cheating.


If you're requiring PGs to be revealed at the end of the game, then you need to require all Loyalty to be revealed - otherwise there's no means of enforcing the rule.

If refusing to reveal a Loyalty at the end of the game means you auto-lose (but get to keep some information hidden) that doesn't obviously break the game, except in the situation where it lets you choose which side wins...
 
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Keith B
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I believe that this, like many things, is just another ruling for each group to make to suit its own style.

I can't think why anyone would want to keep their loyaly card hidden one the game is over. It makes couninting coup or reviewing your not so wise desicions in the after game dicussion difficult.

I have been a victoriuous cylon on about 10 occesions and in about half of which I was unrevealled at the end. I don't think I have had more than 4 turns as a revealled cylon.

There was still doubt about my loyalty at the end of PBF game 195. That was sweet.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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rmsgrey wrote:
If you're requiring PGs to be revealed at the end of the game, then you need to require all Loyalty to be revealed - otherwise there's no means of enforcing the rule.


I think this is just another matter of "don't play with people who are likely to cheat," but on the other hand, I don't see any problem with requiring everybody to reveal Loyalty Cards at the end of the game. Actually, the one problem is the requiring part; people should want to reveal their Loyalty Cards. I've never had a player in the past want his Loyalty Cards to remain hidden after the game.
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