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Subject: Question about Mass rss

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Jason Preder
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Although there is an example of mass, I'm still confused about some things.
The rules state you can pay gold to pull your own piece out of the bag, but these are my questions:

1. Can the 1st player pay 2-4 gold and pull out all his own pieces if he has the money for it?

2. If you can only pull 1 piece at a time, could you pull a second or third if everyone else has passed?

Wasn't sure what the intention was here. Seems like if the first player has a lot of gold, being able to pull more than 1 piece out of the bag is pretty powerful...possibly too powerful.

It seems an interesting variant could be that all draws are blind, and anyone could pay a gold to redraw or force someone to redraw a piece from the bag.

Thanks for any insight people can give on this situation.
 
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Pedro Pereira
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Your point 1) is correct. Players, one at a time, starting with the starting player, decide if and how many of their meeples they want to "bale" out of the bag. So technically what you assume is correct, if that player put 4 of his meeples in the bag, he could alone end the mass by buying them out of the bag.

As for being powerful... not so sure about that... if older generations are used, they will die and some would have to go to the anonymous cemetery. If younger generations are used, the older ones die and that player won't have an efficient way to manage time/resources, thus unable to take full advantages of other score engines...

Nevertheless, an interesting point that I'd say needs playtesting!
 
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Nick Fisk
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That's weird. This bit used to mention Shire Games, and tell you all how wonderful we are. But it seems to have got deleted. Let's see what happens this time ....
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MilkFromACow wrote:
1. Can the 1st player pay 2-4 gold and pull out all his own pieces if he has the money for it?


Yes. I think the rules use the phrase "pay coins to remove his villagers..."


Quote:
2. If you can only pull 1 piece at a time, could you pull a second or third if everyone else has passed?


Now irrelevant


Quote:
Wasn't sure what the intention was here. Seems like if the first player has a lot of gold, being able to pull more than 1 piece out of the bag is pretty powerful...possibly too powerful.


Yes, it's pretty powerful. But then, maybe other players shouldn't let him put a lot of people in the bag in the first place! In a 4-player game, there are only three spots in the bag (and others if people pay three cubes to take the action again), and each time, you have to also pay a brown cube or 3 time ....


Quote:
It seems an interesting variant could be that all draws are blind, and anyone could pay a gold to redraw or force someone to redraw a piece from the bag.


Could be ... But would become a bit random if you keep paying for re-draws and just keep missing out.




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Viktor Kobilke
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MilkFromACow wrote:
Although there is an example of mass, I'm still confused about some things.
The rules state you can pay gold to pull your own piece out of the bag, but these are my questions:

1. Can the 1st player pay 2-4 gold and pull out all his own pieces if he has the money for it?

2. If you can only pull 1 piece at a time, could you pull a second or third if everyone else has passed?

Wasn't sure what the intention was here. Seems like if the first player has a lot of gold, being able to pull more than 1 piece out of the bag is pretty powerful...possibly too powerful.

It seems an interesting variant could be that all draws are blind, and anyone could pay a gold to redraw or force someone to redraw a piece from the bag.

Thanks for any insight people can give on this situation.


The starting player always chooses first how many of his family members he wants to pull out of the bag. If he has 4 in there and has the coins to pull them all out, he may do so.

However, this is not very likely to happen and is very hard to achieve: First you have to get enough meeples in the bag, which already takes a couple of rounds. Also you need to get the coins which are extremely tight; getting them involves harvest and later using the mill a couple of times. You have to become starting player in the council chamber. That alone are a lot of steps and actions that you have to take. If you manage to do this once in the game, it would be already impressive. However, there are probably 5 or 6 masses in total. And then, once you get all your 4 meeples into the church, you need to make them move up with grain, which again you have to produce first - but since you can only store a maximum of 5 - you'd need quite some time to reach higher scoring windows. And of course they need to stay alive till the end of the game.

It simply takes way too much effort - and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't pay off at all. I have never seen anyone do something even close to this and even if I had, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. :-)
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Jason Preder
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vittorioso wrote:
MilkFromACow wrote:
Although there is an example of mass, I'm still confused about some things.
The rules state you can pay gold to pull your own piece out of the bag, but these are my questions:

1. Can the 1st player pay 2-4 gold and pull out all his own pieces if he has the money for it?

2. If you can only pull 1 piece at a time, could you pull a second or third if everyone else has passed?

Wasn't sure what the intention was here. Seems like if the first player has a lot of gold, being able to pull more than 1 piece out of the bag is pretty powerful...possibly too powerful.

It seems an interesting variant could be that all draws are blind, and anyone could pay a gold to redraw or force someone to redraw a piece from the bag.

Thanks for any insight people can give on this situation.


The starting player always chooses first how many of his family members he wants to pull out of the bag. If he has 4 in there and has the coins to pull them all out, he may do so.

However, this is not very likely to happen and is very hard to achieve: First you have to get enough meeples in the bag, which already takes a couple of rounds. Also you need to get the coins which are extremely tight; getting them involves harvest and later using the mill a couple of times. You have to become starting player in the council chamber. That alone are a lot of steps and actions that you have to take. If you manage to do this once in the game, it would be already impressive. However, there are probably 5 or 6 masses in total. And then, once you get all your 4 meeples into the church, you need to make them move up with grain, which again you have to produce first - but since you can only store a maximum of 5 - you'd need quite some time to reach higher scoring windows. And of course they need to stay alive till the end of the game.

It simply takes way too much effort - and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't pay off at all. I have never seen anyone do something even close to this and even if I had, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. :-)


I have only played the game once, and even with that play I can totally understand everything you are saying, and in no way did we even come close to my mentioned situation either.

Buuuut....Now I'm wondering what you are referring to with having to pay grain to move your meeples up in the church. I do understand to move them up you need to pay grain, but you can have more than 1 meeple in any 1 section of the church, correct? I mean, if I want 3-4 meeples in the first section of the church, I could have that situation as far as I know...or did I miss something in the rules?

Thanks for the responses guys. I really like this game a lot. It's art and components are fantastic, and I'm glad I was able to nab one in the States.
 
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Viktor Kobilke
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MilkFromACow wrote:
Buuuut....Now I'm wondering what you are referring to with having to pay grain to move your meeples up in the church. I do understand to move them up you need to pay grain, but you can have more than 1 meeple in any 1 section of the church, correct? I mean, if I want 3-4 meeples in the first section of the church, I could have that situation as far as I know...or did I miss something in the rules?


No, you're absolutely right. I meant this more in a way of paying off - going through all that trouble should at least give you more than a decent amount of prestige points, and for that you must at least manage to move all your meeples up quite a bit...
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Alan Kwan
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You pay grain to move up. Thus, if you have many monks, they compete with each other for your grain.
 
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