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Subject: Taking South Korea with 4 OPs card as USSR rss

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Paweł
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Hello everyone It's my first post here. I have played about 15-20 games so far and enjoy it a lot Wanted to ask you a question about the following opening strategy:

The deal is to spend 4 OPs to get South Korea as USSR after you take Iran. My oponent uses this tactics (preferably with US/Japan card when he has it) and I think it's extremely effective. On AR1, USSR succesfully coups Iran. On AR2, if USA don't put any OPs in S. Korea, USSR plays 4 OPS and takes it. USA is screwed: Soviets will ultimately control 4 out of 6 BGs in Asia (Pakistan, India & both Koreas). It's virtually impossible to take back S. Korea throughout the rest of the game. On the other hand, putting OPs to S. Korea is always risky due to Korean war. So my question is:
a) as USA, do you ALWAYS put 1 OP in Korea on your AR1 after USSR takes Iran? A good question is: what makes you NOT put 1 (or maybe even 2 !?) OPs in S. Korea on your AR1 ? Isn't this move absolutely mandatory on US AR1?
b) as USSR, if you have 4 OPs card and USA did not put OPs to korea on their AR1 (for example they spilled from Israel and/or reinforced Panama or tried Korean war but lost and it's now 2/1 there or whatever else that still makes it only 1 US OP advantage in S. Korea) - is there any better move than to grab S. Korea with the 4 OPs card? Without S. Korea USA is left with Japan and Thailand only (Thailand often being threatened from Vietnam). Looks like this single early move means a BIG chance that USSR will dominate Asia throughout rest of the game.

Indo-pakistani war? It is just a die roll (typically with -1 modifier and USA has to get the card - pure chance, can't count on it). Taiwan? Must happen first, then spend precious 3 OPs, then makes you keep China card, and you're still 1 BG short in Asia. There are recurring Vietnam revolts which threaten Thailand, USSR starts with china card etc. Ussuri? It's mid-war and by then USSR will probably overprotect key BGs or counter it easily. Headline ABM treaty? Seems the only way to turn the tide in Asia (coup pakistan if not overprotected, still you need a good die roll) but it's also mid-war and YOU have to get the card

I think playing 4 OPs in AR2 as USSR and taking S. Korea is one of the most painful events for US player, because it has so great impact for the rest of the game. Do you agree? How do you counter this?
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David F
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Don't play into S Korea until Korean War comes out (unless you're gifted control of Japan). If USSR takes S Korea, then just make sure you stop Domination through total countries.
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Tim Earl
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I concur with the advice above.

On a related note, I lost South Korea via the Korean War last game, and eventually Japan. (He space raced Mutual Defense Pact twice). Luckily, he ignored Iran long enough for me to get into Pakistan, and he played the Vietnam War, which I promptly couped so I could get to Thailand.

Asia is an interesting region, always looking for ways to block your opponent or get back in yourself.
 
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Charles Robinson
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Well, what is Iran looking like after the coup? If the USSR support in Iran is thin, you can think about a coup of your own with a beefy card. If you win back some influence there, you'll force the USSR to coup Iran again. If a successful counter-coup there is unlikely, you can think about crawling back by the play of influence into Jordan, Iraq, and Iran over successive action rounds (subject to defcon hitting 2, of course).

I'd only recommend playing into S Korea as USA early on if you have the Korean War card in hand and can afford to space it. If the USSR does take S Korea with a 4 op card, try to make sure you get Thailand at least, and try to take control of enough countries, especially in SE Asia, to negate USSR domination of the region. Also try breaking his control of N Korea on your final action round, and force him to choose losing it or getting first coup.

Finally, if Asia is a lost cause, work the angles in other regions to try to keep things as even as possible.
 
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Jay Sachs
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Sound advice, if you're the US, but the OP was asking about taking S Korea as the USSR. I'm no expert, but I'd reason along these lines: if the US plays Korean War for the event and loses it, but plays in so it's 2/1: do you have the 4 ops to spare from Europe or the Mideast or the rush to Thailand? If you're sitting on Vietnam Revolts and the US hasn't played into Malaysia, maybe. If the US is going to definitely beat you into Thailand, grabbing S Korea can be a good balance, but that all depends on what's going on in the "triangle" (Iran/Pakistan/Afghanistan). Do you have the Indo-Pak war card? Is the US in Iran? Pakistan? Maybe don't spend all the ops in S Korea, but go in to 2/3 or 2/4, and use the other two elsewhere. Depends on what your hand is like and what you can deduce about the US's hand.
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Charles Robinson
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Sorry, I thought he was asking how, as USA, to counter the USSR grabbing S Korea with a 4 Op card after a successful coup of Iran on AR1.
 
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Dan
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comrade7 wrote:


The deal is to spend 4 OPs to get South Korea as USSR after you take Iran. My oponent uses this tactics (preferably with US/Japan card when he has it) and I think it's extremely effective. On AR1, USSR succesfully coups Iran. On AR2, if USA don't put any OPs in S. Korea, USSR plays 4 OPS and takes it. USA is screwed: Soviets will ultimately control 4 out of 6 BGs in Asia (Pakistan, India & both Koreas). It's virtually impossible to take back S. Korea throughout the rest of the game.

I think playing 4 OPs in AR2 as USSR and taking S. Korea is one of the most painful events for US player, because it has so great impact for the rest of the game. Do you agree? How do you counter this?


As the US I counter it by couping Iran on AR1. If he plays to SK on AR2 I can play to Afghanistan, Pakistan and/or Malaysia. What are you doing on AR1 that he's ignoring?
 
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If the USSR coup was a full succes (3 or more ip's in Iran), then there is little the US can do that makes a huge impact.

either he plays into Libanon (in case Arab-Israeli war kicks him out of Israel), or he might be expending in Europe.
There would be little point in couping Iran and no other "good" targets are on the board yet. Keeping the DEFCON at 4 can be a good thing.
The USSR can't play De-stal or De-col and has to coup Panama in order to lower the DEFCON and not waist ops on a completely useless coup.

Al that is in favour of the US, so it's very well possible that you will do something that doesn't really affect the USSR.

If you are low on ops as the US, I might play 1 into Lebanon and 1 into South Korea.
Now if he wants the get South Korea, he has to either use the China card or spread it over 2 turns (or more). This prevents DEFCON drops, prevents the USSR from spreading further and is benificial for the US.

Cheers, Haring
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Paweł
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Haring wrote:
If the USSR coup was a full succes (3 or more ip's in Iran), then there is little the US can do that makes a huge impact.

either he plays into Libanon (in case Arab-Israeli war kicks him out of Israel), or he might be expending in Europe.
There would be little point in couping Iran and no other "good" targets are on the board yet. Keeping the DEFCON at 4 can be a good thing.
The USSR can't play De-stal or De-col and has to coup Panama in order to lower the DEFCON and not waist ops on a completely useless coup.

Al that is in favour of the US, so it's very well possible that you will do something that doesn't really affect the USSR.

If you are low on ops as the US, I might play 1 into Lebanon and 1 into South Korea.
Now if he wants the get South Korea, he has to either use the China card or spread it over 2 turns (or more). This prevents DEFCON drops, prevents the USSR from spreading further and is benificial for the US.

Cheers, Haring


I agree, with one exception: high DEFCON doesnt hurt soviet player when he was _really_ succesfull in Iran (either wiped out all presence which IMO is the best result or ended with 3 or more OPs) and US player did not add 1 OP to Korea. The conclusion is that playing 1 OP (as US) to S. Korea is a must, not 'might' (in my humble opinion). I believe US can't fear the Korean war. I observed that if US loses both South Korea and Iran-Paki-Afghanistan triangle early in the game, it's extremely difficult to come back later.

Preventing domination by controlling more countries (as suggested before) is the only option but it works best in Europe where you have a lot of high stability countries. Asia with it's 1-stability countries is very vulnerable to many early war events: de-col, de-stal, vietnam revolts, China card and soviet initiative (1st AR). In the long run, it's BG countries that matter, which again brings us back to the original question: If USSR succeeded in Iran on AR1 (wiped out all presence or ended with +3 OP), can US player afford not to play at least one OP to S. Korea on their AR1 - regardless of Korean War threat? Coz if he doesn't there's a good chance he will lose both Iran and South Korea (high defcon won't help to get back S. Korea with its stability 3) - and that's first nail in the coffin.
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Edward
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Most US players play too conservatively with respect to South Korea and France. When DEFCON is 4 and the USSR couped strongly, my top priority is to reinforce South Korea and get out of Israel. Depending on my hand, 1 into SK and 1 into Jordan is probably the best response to a high USSR Iran coup.
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I agree with the points in general, but it too dependent on the cards to "poor advise into concrete".

first the USSR is likely to use a 4-ops card to coup Iran (best bet for the USSR is NATO).
Then he would need another 4-ops card to take South-Korea.
This ideally would be Nuclear test ban, since both US/Japan and Marshall plan give the US "good" events.

When he plays like that, he can't play cards like De-stal, de-col or Vietnam Revolts.

So protecting South Korea is good, but don't go overboard. He might just trick you in using high ops cards.

For me as the US, my priorities in Turn 1 are .
Stay in the Middle East, so move out of Israel while you have the chance. I prefer Libanon over Jordan, but I've seen both ways (Lebanon isn't affected by Muslim Revolution).
Fight for the Iron Triangle (if possible).
Go for Thailand
Protect South Korea
Fight for France.

If the USSR spends 4-ops for a coup in Iran and another 4 (or 5) ops for South Korea, you might level out with ops and have a real fighting change in Europe (If you get France, domination is only a small step away) or in the Middle East (take Egypt and lebanon and Libya and you might score a quick domination).

Cheers, Haring

Edit: wrong spelling of my friends homeland Lebanon
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Monkey Luffy
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If you have japan, you should not worry that much, just concentrate on controlling more countries (8 or above) in Asia to prevent USSR domination, especially those SE Asia countries. Their stabilities are low and there is SE Asia scoring card during the mid-war.

During the mid-war, "Ussuri River Skirmish" will help you get back some Asian BGs when you have China card and it is usually better to do this at late action during a turn when your USSR opponent doesn't have a lot of high OP cards.

If you are really struggling in Asia, even try "Voice of America" to help you in Asia too.
 
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Paweł
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Haring wrote:
I agree with the points in general, but it too dependent on the cards to "poor advise into concrete".

first the USSR is likely to use a 4-ops card to coup Iran (best bet for the USSR is NATO).
Then he would need another 4-ops card to take South-Korea.
This ideally would be Nuclear test ban, since both US/Japan and Marshall plan give the US "good" events.

When he plays like that, he can't play cards like De-stal, de-col or Vietnam Revolts.


Hmm, why can't he play de-stal or de-col or vietnam revolts after playing 2x4 OP cards ?
 
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Evgeny Reznikov
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Haring means the USSR can't play them immediately after the second 4 Ops play, since Defcon is at 4, therefore Thailand is vulnerable to US coups.
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Alex
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Haring wrote:
first the USSR is likely to use a 4-ops card to coup Iran (best bet for the USSR is NATO).
Then he would need another 4-ops card to take South-Korea.


USSR starts the game with The China Card. That makes a nice candidate for a South Korean takeover.

I am in the middle of a game where the USSR managed, on AR 1, to Coup Iran with a 3 ops card. The coup was weak but managed to remove my one and only Influence.
Fearing no threat on the Western Asia front, he then went and took S. Korea with The China Card on AR 2.

I am not as experimented as many of you guys are. But it sure sounds like a great strategy; no access for the US in West Asia and S. Korea is most likely lost for the game. An easy 4 BC in Asia for the USSR.

Even if USSR had managed to have more success with his initial coup, couping Iran back is not always a appealing option. Depending on how successful the initial coup was and what cards the US player holds.
Given the US do not coup Iran back (or if the coup fails), USSR taking S. Korea rapidly looks like a good move to a relatively new player like me.

EDIT : Corrected some typos
 
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Proudly annoying Capitalists since 1959
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I agree it's a good strategy to take S-K after an Iran coup.

Doing so with the China card is a move that I've made before and have had to suffer before, but it's not a game breaker.
First you hold the china card and if you're abit lucky Asia is still relatively empty at the start of turn 2.

Good luck.
Cheers, Haring
 
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