$10.00
Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
8 Posts

Catan» Forums » General

Subject: Cooperation vs Non-Cooperation Playstyles rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Kai Poon
United Kingdom
London
Greater London
flag msg tools
One of the complaints I've seen pushed against Settlers is that it does not make sense for people to trade with each other. I imagine the outcome of this attitude is that people are often stuck doing nothing but waiting.

Now I can understand frustrations if other people aren't willing to trade with you. Why does this attitude of not wanting to trade exist though?

It's just a totally different mindset that I can't really grasp as I usually think: Trading = Always a higher chance of victory. Even if you are offering other people better deals, ultimately, you'll benefit the most if you are actively trading with multiple people. Those that are just purely self-reliant won't be able to beat a trading + self-efficiency strategy in my mind.

From that point of view... to me, Settlers is a game of determining who would be a wise person to trade with, and whether I'll gain the most in the long run even if I'm helping both of us out at that time. Actually, maybe this is the main reason people don't want to trade?

Someone enlighten me to the reasoning behind this other play style.



1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brook Gentlestream
United States
Long Beach
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm with you. I think people who focus on production only just aren't getting the game or don't play very often.

It can, however, also depend on the group mentality. If they all learned the game together, then the way in which the group handles any kind of interaction including trading, bartering, bidding, negotiation, cooperation, sportsmanship etc. in games can kind greatly influence your outlook and be difficult to change.

In Flash Point, for example, everyone in my group is so convinced that the deckgun is the greatest thing ever without which victory is impossible. This creates problems because I feel an over reliance on the deckgun prevents us from being precise with our AP expenditure, but its difficult to convince a group of that. This all started because of one player's zealous reaction to the deck gun as we were just learning the game. I'm sure a group that played with other people more often might be less willing to jump to assumptions about what strategies are better than others and try different methods. But if you're going to play with our group, the mentality of the group influences the nature of the game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Delesdernier
United States
Metairie
Louisiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Also agreed. Just looking at basic economics, production potential is increased with trade. The biggest difference here is that competition may mean that someone's production potential will inevitably lead to a decrease in expansion opportunities. So while caution should be taken to avoid another player stealing expansion potential, trade is generally advantageous.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
chris lake
United States
Hewitt
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
TO reference this back to settlers.

Early on in my Online gaming I played quite a lot of Jsettlers (Java based) Quite frequently the house rule was NTRR (No Trading - Reverse Robber) Mainly this was to spped games up due to asking for trades really bogged a game down, and the reverse robber aspect help to mitigate the penalizing fact of a robber on other players.

I found that when you play the No trading variant, it changes how you play the game. Your initial placements and proximity to ports become a lot more important.

That being said, It is one thing to agree before the game there isnt any trading because you can adjust your strategy for that, but to go into a game when noone will trade with you when you had the expectation they will can really screw you over.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Cordeiro
United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The non-traders are either new players, or they just don't get the strategy. You're right, a prudent trader will beat a non-trader most of the time due to faster conversion of resources into resource-producing settlemnts/cities, as well as a lower likelihood of losing cards due to hand limit restrictions.

I think the non-traders see trading as a neutral event because another player benefits as well. In reality, only the 2 players doing the trade actually benefit (assuming both are trading prudently). The other players stay the same. In reality, you don't even need to make out better than the person you're trading with. It just needs to be a fair trade to be worthwhile. You're getting something you need, and so are they. That's an improvement for the 2 trading players, while the other players' situations remain unchanged.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kai Poon
United Kingdom
London
Greater London
flag msg tools
saltis wrote:
TO reference this back to settlers.

Early on in my Online gaming I played quite a lot of Jsettlers (Java based) Quite frequently the house rule was NTRR (No Trading - Reverse Robber) Mainly this was to spped games up due to asking for trades really bogged a game down, and the reverse robber aspect help to mitigate the penalizing fact of a robber on other players.

I found that when you play the No trading variant, it changes how you play the game. Your initial placements and proximity to ports become a lot more important.

That being said, It is one thing to agree before the game there isnt any trading because you can adjust your strategy for that, but to go into a game when noone will trade with you when you had the expectation they will can really screw you over.


Yeah I've seen a lot of online games with the no trade policies and I can't say I'm too surprised given that it's a lot harder to negotiate and trade online than it is offline.

I think for the most part it's probably wise to stay near some sort of location where you'll be able to generate your own income. But in real life, it just doesn't really make any sense what so ever to play no-trades since rather than speeding up the game, it'll just slow down things to a grinding halt.

Perhaps a lot of these players are coming from playing having played Settlers online or another medium first.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gláucio Reis
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Some newbies just have a hard time to grasp the idea of cooperating with other players in a competitive game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Austin Norris

Austin
Texas
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You might have Monopoly to thank for the non cooperation style. I know the way most of my friends believe in that game you should never trade someone a monopoly unless you are getting one that is much better, but really just never do it. However in Catan they all understand that you have to trade to make it in Catan. If you have regular people you play with doing this eventually they will have to understand you need to trade to win assuming at least two people are trading and running away with the game while the others just fall behind.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.