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Subject: About the capital cycle rss

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Bruno Gaia
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Hi!

I have the core set and "Assault" and have immense fun with that already. My wife and I wish to enter the crueller realms of proper deckbuilding though (but just using what we got, with no arms race intended or wanted), and I was wondering:

Would getting one of each pack from the Capital cycle (since each pack is "more dedicated" to a precise race) amount to getting something like a "super expansion" (that would get us close to 70 dollars...) for W:I, the way one can buy expansions for boardgames (meaning, would I get six "somewhat balanced" races in the end [and two somewhat balanced sides: order and chaos] and not too much "killing techniques scenarios")

I used to plag MtG. So it's just fair that I'm fretful when it comes to anything ending with the CG concept XD!
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Bruno Gaia
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Thanks for the reply. I wrote that I already own Assault actually.
About the cycles you speak of, do they make a "well balanced game"?
The capital cycle, with "one pack per race" appealed to me since it seemed to make for more balance between races (and factions)
 
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Drew Dallas
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Buying it as a full cycle there really isn't any difference. Each race gets the same number of cards in the capital cycle as when they each have equal number of cards in each pack. The entire cycle is playtested together so you shouldn't see any difference between the current cycle and the previous ones balance wise based on distribution.
 
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Elijah Snow
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brunogaia wrote:
The capital cycle, with "one pack per race" appealed to me since it seemed to make for more balance between races (and factions)


It doesn't. The number of cards per faction is still the same if you buy the whole cycle. And it is wrong to assume that all factions benefit equally from each complete cycle. The Corruption cycle was better for Destruction, especially Orcs, than for Order. Dwarves and Empire benefitted the most from the Enemy Cycle.

If you get the whole Capital cycle, you'll find it doesn't offer much for the Dwarves. Chaos and Dark Elves will benefit more.

What it comes down to: Either simply just get the other two deluxe expansions (most bang for the buck), or think about which factions need the most help for you, and cherrypick battlepacks accordingly. There's no need to buy complete cycles, and no one but you can tell what makes for a well balanced game for you. People have different styles of play, and for some groups a faction dominates that other groups consider weak, because of groupthink and dominant styles.
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Bruno Gaia
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Planetary wrote:
brunogaia wrote:
The capital cycle, with "one pack per race" appealed to me since it seemed to make for more balance between races (and factions)


It doesn't. The number of cards per faction is still the same if you buy the whole cycle. And it is wrong to assume that all factions benefit equally from each complete cycle. The Corruption cycle was better for Destruction, especially Orcs, than for Order. Dwarves and Empire benefitted the most from the Enemy Cycle.

If you get the whole Capital cycle, you'll find it doesn't offer much for the Dwarves. Chaos and Dark Elves will benefit more.

What it comes down to: Either simply just get the other two deluxe expansions (most bang for the buck), or think about which factions need the most help for you, and cherrypick battlepacks accordingly. There's no need to buy complete cycles, and no one but you can tell what makes for a well balanced game for you. People have different styles of play, and for some groups a faction dominates that other groups consider weak, because of groupthink and dominant styles.


Very interesting answer. tends to point out what I was suspecting: that "cycles" are not really meant to be balanced (and, in a way, how could they be? that would need thousands of hours of play testing...).
The two deluxe expansions I miss are Legends and March of the damned am I right (didn't check before writing this)? Would adding that lead to a somewhat balanced experience?
Anyway I sure don't think perfect balance can be reached? It's just that at some point if chaos wins all the games no matter what order does, it will make us hate the game.
But seeing how the mechanics work, it's true that W:I is also a game that's prone to immense variations due to hand managmement and general strategy...
Arf tough...
 
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Elijah Snow
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Among experienced players there is sort of a consensus right now that if you use all available cards, five factions are about equally matched, and the High Elves trail behind them. That doesn't mean the factions are equally good at all approaches. Every faction has at least one competitive archetype though.

Again, what would balance your game is hard to tell. It depends on what's strong and weak for you right now. If you both like to rush, the Orcs probably dominate. If you both like to take your time and build up slow, it might be Dwarves, or even Chaos with its big units. If you tell us which factions appear weak to you, we can recommend expansions that help these factions more than the others. You can also just check the forum here for previous similar discussions, or check expansion contents yourself at http://deckbox.org/games/whi/cards (Advanced Search to filter by expansion) to see what you think would help.

March of the Damned has good cards for all factions, and plenty of neutral ones that you can use to boost those factions which need help for you. Legends will mostly help Chaos.

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Michael BD

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brunogaia wrote:
Planetary wrote:
brunogaia wrote:
The capital cycle, with "one pack per race" appealed to me since it seemed to make for more balance between races (and factions)


It doesn't. The number of cards per faction is still the same if you buy the whole cycle. And it is wrong to assume that all factions benefit equally from each complete cycle. The Corruption cycle was better for Destruction, especially Orcs, than for Order. Dwarves and Empire benefitted the most from the Enemy Cycle.

If you get the whole Capital cycle, you'll find it doesn't offer much for the Dwarves. Chaos and Dark Elves will benefit more.

What it comes down to: Either simply just get the other two deluxe expansions (most bang for the buck), or think about which factions need the most help for you, and cherrypick battlepacks accordingly. There's no need to buy complete cycles, and no one but you can tell what makes for a well balanced game for you. People have different styles of play, and for some groups a faction dominates that other groups consider weak, because of groupthink and dominant styles.


Very interesting answer. tends to point out what I was suspecting: that "cycles" are not really meant to be balanced (and, in a way, how could they be? that would need thousands of hours of play testing...).
The two deluxe expansions I miss are Legends and March of the damned am I right (didn't check before writing this)? Would adding that lead to a somewhat balanced experience?
Anyway I sure don't think perfect balance can be reached? It's just that at some point if chaos wins all the games no matter what order does, it will make us hate the game.
But seeing how the mechanics work, it's true that W:I is also a game that's prone to immense variations due to hand managmement and general strategy...
Arf tough...
I am in sort of a similar situation as you in that the bulk of my WHI gaming is with a family member (my daughter). So I bought the Ulthuan and March of the Damned expansions first and started making decks for each faction with those. From there I mostly bought battlepacks that were showing up in my amazon.com daily deals for $11 or less (I get free shipping with amazon prime) so the only real rhyme or reason to my collecting cards was financial. I've slowly built up over 1200 cards using my "unscientific method" and through our gameplay have been able to build fairly equal decks for each faction. A huge part of the draw for me is building decks that play well off of each other and when I find a deck combination that is superior to the others I work to try and balance the rest. This is where the real bulk of the fun has come for me--not building a super competitive deck to rule them all, but keeping a balance between what I have.

I really do enjoy this game and it's one of my top 5 favorites. I believe one of its biggest strengths is being able to tailor it to however you want to play it.
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The thing to remember about cycles in Living Card Games is they are intended to balance out the meta game as much as provide awesomeness for each race. So if after thousands of hours of playing by thousands of players it is discovered that a certain faction seems to be winning more frequently than others when using a specific build, a cycle or two later contains cards that will help even out that particular build with the other factions.

However since you are purposefully trying to build balanced decks you can buy whatever you want and when you find a build that starts to dominate, even when you have tried different strategies you can try to strengthen the other decks, either buy looking at the cards you own that you did not include, rebuilding those decks, or removing one or two instances of key cards from the dominating deck.

The primary difference in format of an LCG and a CCG for you is that one deck won't be dominating because they got lucky and ended up with more power rares and super useful uncommons and the other factions just can't compete without having to hunt down specific cards. If you buy a cycle of cards you will have tons of cards that you can mess around with every conceivable variation those other factions have until you land on something that works for you.
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