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Subject: My 2 cents: Innovation rss

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Cristian Raut
Romania
Bucharest
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This is intended as a series of condensed mini-reviews for people who want to quickly learn the most important aspects of a game
You can find my other reviews in the series here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/96101/my-2-cents






1. Number of games = 13


2. Components

I have the IELLO version, there are 110 very good quality cards and 4 small player aid/tableau for keeping track of your score. A special mention to the box which has a very nice magnetic lid. Overall few components but very good quality


3. Rule book

At first it seemed too complex of a game to be covered in such a small rule book but it explains everything clearly and with the aid of the player aid that stands in front of you I never had to open the rule book again after the first play


4. Gameplay

In turn order each person will have 2 actions. The actions are very simple: you can draw a card, play a card from your hand (to the tableau), dominate(scoring mechanism) or activate a card from the tableau, doing everything it's written on it. All the cards have symbols on them, the game revolves around struggling for majority in different symbols, activating cards and creating scoring mechanism with them.


5. Complexity

Simple game to teach and learn but the interaction between different cards and abilities is complex so it's one of those games with simple mechanics but complex gameplay. One problem it has though is that people who already know the cards in the game have a bit of advantage over new players.


6.Luck factor

Medium. It's a card game and sometimes it can come to the luck of the draw. There are better cards than others and because the game is about scoring sometimes if you can't get some scoring cards or scoring denying cards you are left there developing better but just losing on points.


7.Player interaction

Large. You have to always be aware what the other person is doing, you are stealing cards, stealing points, activating cards that benefit the opponent(each card has an activating symbol and if an opponent has equal or more of that symbol they too get the reward)


8. Recommended for (number of players) / Replay value

It's clear this game is recommended with 2 or 3 players. With 4 it's just too chaotic. But between 2 or 3 it comes down to personal preference. I think I like it more with 3 because it seems to negate a bit the luck of the draw in the beginning of the game because the game lasts longer with 3. Also you have to better manage activating cards that benefit opponents, with just 2 you just try to activate the ones that benefit only you most of the time.


9. Pros

-very nice components, nice and small box, good for traveling
-a quick to play but fairly complex game
-not many 2p games in this category of complexity has such a large player interactivity
-for lots of people a good stepping stone in introducing the wife/girlfriend to a bit more complex games


10. Cons

-the player interactivity can be bad for people who like the multiplayer solitaire type of games
-some games can be decided by luck


11. Other considerations

I purchased this game recently and already played it a lot, both me and my girlfriend love it. The game will benefit a lot from the expansion.


12. Rating 9/10
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Joseph Betz
United States
Hamburg
Pennsylvania
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I would not pay 2 cents for this game.I did not care for it but it is interesting that you say it is better with 2or 3 players as I have only played with 4 players and just thought it seemed to random.
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Miguel
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
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If you are behind on points, try burning through cards to get to age 9/10. Those stacks contain several cards that a player that is behind on points can use to win the game using alternate win conditions.

Also, if a player is ahead in the age stacks, the cards are much more powerful, and life can become very difficult for te others.

Finally, I disagree somewhat with your assessment of medium luck. Potential players need to know that for many games, the luck factor will feel really high. With experience, the appearance of the cards during certain ages will become more predictable since the game makes a certain amount of card cycling possible. Still, the cards might be held by other players and the combos might not come up. In fact, one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game for me (but potentially frustrating for others) is how different one game plays out compared to others.
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Cristian Raut
Romania
Bucharest
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With 2 players you're not getting to age 9 if you are behind on points because your opponent can already win by the 5th or 6th age. That's why with 2p the beginning is much more important.

Well I can't say the luck factor is too high because even with bad luck a good player will still have a better chance against a novice.
But on a game-by-game basis some games will feel very random and decided by luck and others will see the better player and the better strategy win.

Joseph you should really try the game as a 2 or 3 player, in fact the BGG no. of players poll is a bit misleading saying it's recommended for 4, but when you check the numbers you see that 40% voted for 'Not recommended with 4'. I really feel this game only shines as a 2 or 3 player game and only to some people.
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UA Darth
United States
Deerfield Beach
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jbetz45453 wrote:
I would not pay 2 cents for this game.I did not care for it but it is interesting that you say it is better with 2or 3 players as I have only played with 4 players and just thought it seemed to random.


I never understand why people play these kinds of games with 4 players. Before I even played the game, I knew to stay away from 4 player. It is completely illogical.
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Jon W
United States
Aurora
CO
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shadow9d9 wrote:
I never understand why people play these kinds of games with 4 players.

What kinds of games? Games that say on the box that they're for 2-4 players?

That said, I agree that 2-3 is best (and really, I think 3 is pushing it). The problem, in large part, is that the deck size doesn't scale. The expansion explicitly addresses this, and really does improve the game for 3p (and I imagine for 4p, though I haven't tried that).
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UA Darth
United States
Deerfield Beach
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waddball wrote:
shadow9d9 wrote:
I never understand why people play these kinds of games with 4 players.

What kinds of games? Games that say on the box that they're for 2-4 players? ;)

That said, I agree that 2-3 is best (and really, I think 3 is pushing it). The problem, in large part, is that the deck size doesn't scale. The expansion explicitly addresses this, and really does improve the game for 3p (and I imagine for 4p, though I haven't tried that).


If player numbers on boxes meant anything, we wouldn't have polling here. That always was and always will be a marketing ploy and/or what is possible, not what is necessarily good.

These kind, meaning games with a decent amount of chaos. More players generally always adds more chaos.

It is like when people complained about Dominant Species with 6 players. I would never have considered it with more than 3... 3 was chaotic enough.

Innovation I'd only play with 2. Glory to Rome mainly 2, maaaybe with 3.

Players add chaos to already chaotic games people! If you want control, don't play max players just because you technically can!
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Jon creek
United Kingdom
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The partnership variant works very well for 4 players.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/546734/official-team-innovat...
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Rex Moore
United States
Woodbridge
Virginia
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shadow9d9 wrote:
If player numbers on boxes meant anything, we wouldn't have polling here.


Err, that's not true. The numbers on the box mean something... how many can play. Our polling goes beyond that, attempting to explain what numbers are best.

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Nate Owens
United States
Garland
Texas
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The game works fine with four players. It's just going to be too chaotic for some people that way. I've always found the game to be more interesting with more people.

The expansion does even it out a little bit, so that's nice. But yeah, I like chaotic games, and I like the four-player version of Innovation.
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UA Darth
United States
Deerfield Beach
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orangeblood wrote:
shadow9d9 wrote:
If player numbers on boxes meant anything, we wouldn't have polling here.


Err, that's not true. The numbers on the box mean something... how many can play. Our polling goes beyond that, attempting to explain what numbers are best.



Read the rest of what I wrote: "and/or what is possible". It can refer to what players are possible, not what is optimal.
 
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