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Tigris & Euphrates» Forums » Rules

Subject: "Banishing" leader with monument placement rss

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Pardon me if this has been asked before (as I'm sure it has), but sifting through 18 pages of rules threads was becoming a bit tedious.

Let's say a leader is positioned next to only a single temple. If that temple later becomes part of the foundation for a monument, leaving the leader without an adjacent temple, is that a legitimate move? Would the leader then be taken off the board, effectively making it a bloodless, leaderless coup (or an anarchist uprising, if you will)?

Seems somewhat unlikely to occur, but not knowing is bothering me.
 
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Paulo Santoro
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It's a legitimate move.
The leader is taken off the board.
Not so unlikely to occur.
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Minden
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Interesting. I'm glad it's legit, because I love sneaky moves in games.

If it's an opponent's leader, do you score a point for removing it, as you would from a conflict?
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Kelly Fischer
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No point for removing the leader in this case.

D Beau wrote:
Interesting. I'm glad it's legit, because I love sneaky moves in games.

If it's an opponent's leader, do you score a point for removing it, as you would from a conflict?
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Minden
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Thanks to you both.
 
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Rob Rob
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Yes, to reiterate the leader(s) looses their red tile when the monument gets built so they come off the board and it doesn't score a conflict "victory" cube for the person placing the monument.

Not only is the above a good strategy to eliminate one or more enemy leaders, it can also be a good strategy to build a monument for your opponent with your first tile placement, solely to reduce tiles of a given color in that kingdom. Then your second tile placement would be to connect that kingdom to one of your own kingdoms, stronger in that color tile (or going for an internal conflict if the color was red).

EDIT: replaced many erroneous uses of "cube" and leader for the correct "tile."
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suPUR DUEper
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Villa Hills
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Also, sometimes it can also be good to voluntarily remove your leader if your kingdom is about to be overrun so your opponent does not get the cubes.....
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Kenny VenOsdel
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TedW wrote:
Also, sometimes it can also be good to voluntarily remove your leader if your kingdom is about to be overrun so your opponent does not get the cubes.....


...but probably not the best idea to abandon it and leave them with a monument unless you had plans on recapturing the kingdom shortly.
 
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Doug Bass
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Robrob wrote:
Not only is the above a good strategy to eliminate one or more enemy leaders, it can also be a good strategy to build a monument for your opponent with your first tile placement, solely to reduce tiles of a given color in that kingdom. Then your second leader placement would be to connect that kingdom to one of your own kingdoms, stronger in that color tile (or going for an internal conflict if the color was red).

I think you meant tile instead of leader for the second placement, since you can't join two kingdoms with a leader token.
 
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suPUR DUEper
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kvenosdel wrote:
TedW wrote:
Also, sometimes it can also be good to voluntarily remove your leader if your kingdom is about to be overrun so your opponent does not get the cubes.....


...but probably not the best idea to abandon it and leave them with a monument unless you had plans on recapturing the kingdom shortly.


Yeah, I should probably clarify.... I wasn't saying it was necessariyl a good idea to abandon a monument. I was leveraging off Rob Rob's comment in a general sense that sometimes picking up a leader, while not garnering you points can prevent an opponent from reaping a whole batch.
 
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Aleksander Zav
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But, in this case, what would happen to a treasure, placed on one of the red tiles that will be converted to a monument?
 
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Kelly Fischer
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It would just remain parked on the monument until a trader was able to obtain it.

siberianhusky wrote:
But, in this case, what would happen to a treasure, placed on one of the red tiles that will be converted to a monument?
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Bleicher
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Good point. Some of my best external conflict outcomes have come after completing monuments for my opponent. And it doesn't even has to be "as the first action". If you know the game is far from ending, it is a very good idea to complete two monuments for your opponent if you have that opportunity, even though you will only have the chance to start an external conflict later. It will give him some points, but you'll have a great advantage when you get there. In fact, I rarely build monuments for myself in the early game (unless I really have a lot of tiles of a given color and the opponent kingdoms are not too close) - starting external conflicts to get monuments built by anyone else is always a better idea.
 
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Damon Hoffman
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This thread is very confusing for me, because in the rules it states that for purposes of conflicts and leaders, monuments are still considered to be red, and therefor there is no reason to remove the leader, and there is a definite disadvantage to completing an opponents monument? Is there a revision to this rule that I'm not aware of?
 
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Rob Rob
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flowman wrote:
This thread is very confusing for me, because in the rules it states that for purposes of conflicts and leaders, monuments are still considered to be red, and therefor there is no reason to remove the leader, and there is a definite disadvantage to completing an opponents monument? Is there a revision to this rule that I'm not aware of?

I'm not sure I understand your post.

Once converted from tiles to a monument, they provide no support for any leader. AAMOF, if when building a monument you convert a red tile that was the sole support for a leader - that leader comes off the board.
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