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Subject: Halikarnassos and Babylon Interaction rss

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Steven Albano
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I swore I was able to find this before, but I can't now.

So, what happens when someone activates Halikarnassos "free-build" during the last turn that someone has Babylon's side B built.

How does it go?


1) Players pick cards to either build a building or stage or discard for 3 gold.
2) If a "free-build" symbol was used, build from the discard pile now. (Halkarnassos before Solomon.)
3) If Babylon's side B is built and it is the last build of the age, that player can either build a building or stage or discard for 3 gold.

(This is throughout each age and, hopefully, has the interaction with Babylon correct. I'm not sure where if it's all correct.)



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Conan Meriadoc
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I'd say it would be more like :

1) Players pick cards to either build a building or stage or discard for 3 gold.
2) If Babylon's side B is built and it is the last build of the age, that player can either build a building or stage or discard for 3 gold. If it is the last build of the age, the other players discard their last card.
3) Halikarnassos can now search the discard for a card and play it for free.


Since the Halikarnassos power happens after the last age discards, I fail to see how it could happen before Babylon decides to play their 7th card. So, Babylon comes first
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Steven Metzger
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Traditionally, I run Babylon's 7th turn of the age BEFORE Halicarnassus looks through discards.
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Adam Smiles
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Sounds like you have it right.

1. Everyone selects their turn 6 card, and everyone but Babylon discards their unplayed 7th card.
2. Everyone builds a structure/wonder/discards for gold (including Halikarnassos).
3. Babylon (and possibly Manniken Pis copying Babylon) takes their 7th turn.

You need to finish turn 6, before you can go to turn 7.
 
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Steven Albano
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Oh, that's something I miss.

When do players discard their 7th card?

Before or after Halikarnossos?
 
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Kyle W.
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colormage1 wrote:
Oh, that's something I miss.

When do players discard their 7th card?

Before or after Halikarnossos?
Before, so if that player completed their wonder stage in the last round they do get to look through all of those discarded 7th cards.
 
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Steven Albano
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So... Does this cover all the timing issues?

And more important, is it correct?

1) Players pick cards to either build a building or stage or discard for 3 gold.
2) If this is the last build of the age, all players discard their last card unless they have Babylon's side B built.
3) If a "free-build" symbol was used, build from the discard pile now. (Halkarnassos before Solomon.)
4) If Babylon's side B is built and it is the last build of the age, that player can either build a building or stage or discard for 3 gold.
 
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Steven Metzger
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colormage1 wrote:
So... Does this cover all the timing issues?

And more important, is it correct?

1) Players pick cards to either build a building or stage or discard for 3 gold.
2) If this is the last build of the age, all players discard their last card unless they have Babylon's side B built.
3) If a "free-build" symbol was used, build from the discard pile now. (Halkarnassos before Solomon.)
4) If Babylon's side B is built and it is the last build of the age, that player can either build a building or stage or discard for 3 gold.
Like I said, we usually exercise Babylon's 7th before Halicarnassus' "build a discard." It has the net effect of one extra card to look through IF the Babylon B player ditched for coin.
 
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Adam Smiles
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And if they are sitting next to each other and Babylon is building military, it gives Haicarnassus a chance to counter, when it should not have that opportunity. It decreases the strength of Babylon's power and increases the strength of Halicarssus'.

The number of times the order will matter is small, but in those few situations it could be game changing.

How your group plays is great for the variants forum, but not the best for an answer in the rules forum.
 
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Steven Albano
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I've been reading the clarifications in the rule book, and I think this is the correct order. (Also, now I know "action" can be used for build or discard.)


1) Players pick a card to perform an action.
2) If this is not the last turn of the age, players pass their hand.
3) If this is the last turn of the age, players discard the last card unless they have Babylon's side B. The player with Babylon's side B can perform an action with that card.
4) If a "free-build" symbol was used, build from the discard pile now. (Halkarnassos before Solomon.)

I'm pretty sure this is how it works.

It says in the rules that Halikarnossos can get the discarded cards of the last turn for each age, "If players discard cards on that turn (for example, during the 6th turn of an age), the player can also choose from among those cards." (Rulebook 9)

It also says this about Babylon B, "The second stage gives the player the option of playing their seventh Age card instead of discarding it." (9)

What that means is that Babylon gives you an alternative to discarding it. It does not change the timing of the discard.

Since the discard of the last turn always happens before Halicarnassus, Babylon will happen before it too!


I think, anyway. >>

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Adam Smiles
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colormage1 wrote:

What that means is that Babylon gives you an alternative to discarding it. It does not change the timing of the discard.


Search the forums. The question of the timing of the Babylon's power has come up before. The designer has even weighed in on the subject. The card is played as if Babylon has a 7th turn. Halicarnussus needs to complete turn 6 before Babylon can start turn 7.

But, it's your game and you're welcome to play however you wish.
 
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Steven Albano
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I tried searching the forums and couldn't find anything.

Do you know what post?
 
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Steven Albano
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Okay... Then I've been thinking about it this way. And I think I have it this time!!!

1) Players pick a card to perform an action.
2) If a "free-build" symbol was used, build from the discard pile now. (Halkarnassos before Solomon.)
3) If it is not the last build of the age, pass your hand.
4) If it is the last build of the age, players discard the last card unless they have Babylon's side B. The player with Babylon's side B can perform an action with that card.

And I think I'm satisfied with this. Thoughts?
 
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M. B. Downey
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Nope. If built as the sixth card of an age, Halikarnassos is allowed to look through all discarded cards, including the 7th card that everyone but Babylon has to discard.
 
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Adam Smiles
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Nope, you've still got it wrong. The rules specifically state that cards discarded in turn 6 (by everyone except Babylon and potentially Manniken Pis copying Babylon) are available for Halicarnassus (and like powers) to build from the discard pile.

Why not play exactly as the rules indicate? To summarize:

1. Everyone chooses a card
1b. If this is turn 6, everyone without Babylon's wonder power discards their 7th card.
2. Everyone takes their action, including Halicarnassus type powers.
3. If it is not turn 6, pick up the hand of cards from your neighbor.
3b. If this is turn 6, Babylon takes turn 7 with the remaining card.
 
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Steven Albano
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Okay. Let's try this again. (And I'm trying to play with the exact rules!)

If NOT the last build of the age:
1) Players pick a card to perform an action.
2) If a "free-build" symbol was used, build from the discard pile now. (Halkarnassos before Solomon.)
3) Pass your hand.


If the last build of the age:
1) Players pick a card to perform an action.
2) Everyone discard the last card if not Babylon.
3) Halicarnassus's "free build" works.
4) Babylon performs an action with their final card.


Okay, I think this is it.
 
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