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Subject: Awseome game with lots of potential for strategy rss

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Pedro Pereira
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Hi guys,

I really like this game! This was an amazing discovery and I have played it a few times since I got it. I just love all the stuff players can do and the many decisions that can be made.

This is not going to be an article on strategy, but instead I'm interested in starting a discussion perhaps, exchanging a few ideas, so here goes:

After the first few plays it became obvious that no player should attempt to play on all big score bringers simultaneously, the penalty being low scores on each one of those.

As major score bringers I'd say we have:

- Travels
- Church
- City Hall (is it the city hall? I'm never sure)
- Market


I'm not including the Almanac here because I believe all players should try to score here as well (as best as possible) since dying meeples is unavoidable in this game, so they should at least earn you some points.

The yellow buildings provide the stuff players need to be able to score in the above mentioned areas:

- You get wagons to travel;
- You get parchments to up in the city hall
- You get coins to score extra VPs in the city hall (last position)
- And pretty much everything you get there you can sell in the market

I found that the Market is surprisingly strong! So player should be very careful about opponents concentrating on the market. Certain combinations are usable only in the market, for example "cow + wagon", so a player who plans well for the market, can easily score good points while also blocking other player's attempts to sell goods there. A well timed marketing action can be crucial to victory.

Travelling is expensive but rewarding! Lots of points to be had, and some of the investment is recovered, plus you get 6 extra VPs which makes for a total of 24 VPs if you visit all the locations! In our experience that's very close to half of the VPs scored in a regular 4 player game. If you add the 12 VPs from Almanac you got yourself a whopping 36 VPs! That's a lot!

I find the City Hall to be very interesting too, since, once you got a meeple to top position, you can every time the city hall is activated pay 1 Gold to get 3 VPs, so if well combined with the Mill and the wheat production, you can easily score 12 extra VPs throughout the game (if you manage many more than those, it's because your opponents weren't paying attention).

The church is interesting as well, you're able to score 2 VPs every round if you manage it well, and score some hefty end VPs for every meeple there. It's not too difficult to bring at least 2 meeples to top position if played well (it's much more difficult in the City Hall), so this can earn you at least 12 VPs end game (18 if you manage somehow a 3rd meeple which should prove a bit more difficult, but a third or even fourth on track should provide you an end score of somewhere between 12 and 18 VPs not counting the extra 2VPs from every mass)

Any player choosing to invest in the market I think is to be regarded with care, and the opponents should try to block it by premature activation (collecting an influence cube and hopefully scoring a low sell)

Travelling is a solid investment and I usually start with a generation 1 going either the upper or the lower path for only about 2 locations, set it to sleep in the Almanac and restart with a generation 2 meeple following the opposite direction, this saves my 1 influence token in all and I assured one of the two spaces in the Almanac. If couples with a few sales in the market, I think we have a strong strategy here.

The church may be a solid investment as well, but requires really good time management I think and should also be supported with a few minor sales in the market.

I'm most concerned about the city hall, although interesting, the fact is that it's very expensive to push your meeples to top position and I don't think that it compensates getting a second meeple there, unlike the church. Because either you push the meeple up and use action, or you use action with no payment, and the most interesting aspect here is to have a meeple in top position so you can buy extra VPs as often as possible! I haven't yet figure how well the 3VPs/coin compensate for the lack of other meeples on this track. So this might mean a stronger combination with another track (market? travels? Church?)

So I'd be interested in knowing your thoughts on all this. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong.

Obviously the yellow buildings are the ones that make this game tick, since they provide the players with all they need to make their meeples so successful in life. You also need more meeples to better manage the time aspect of the game, and obviously there is also the important question as to "how long should I make this game last?" The fact that players manage to accumulate more influence cubes towards the last two rounds (thinking about a 4/5 round game) means that more actions can be taken... all very interesting... your thoughts then if you please?

Eager to read! Thanks.
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Mik Svellov
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Pedrator wrote:
So I'd be interested in knowing your thoughts on all this. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong.
The great thing about multiplayer worker placement games is that strong actions will soon be heavily contested, thus bringing them down in strength, whereas less interesting actions will see less competition, thus increasing their relative valus.

Although your initial assesment of the areas correspond to mine, I am pretty sure we will see the usual pattern: people will fight heavily over the most important spaces, which means that they will give the victory to the guy they have left alone!
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Pedro Pereira
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Great Dane wrote:
I am pretty sure we will see the usual pattern: people will fight heavily over the most important spaces, which means that they will give the victory to the guy they have left alone!


And that's sort of what I was interested in discussing. What do you chose most of the times? What's the strategy you like most?
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Andy Andersen
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I just picked this up and am reading the rules. Thanks for putting this together.
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Mik Svellov
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Pedrator wrote:
And that's sort of what I was interested in discussing. What do you chose most of the times? What's the strategy you like most?
As I have only played a single game, I couldn't really say

I went for the market, and a little bit of everything else. I though I was losing, but won by narrow margin. However, I am certain that won't happen again, as the others will be more interested in the market next time...
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Pedro Pereira
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Orangemoose wrote:
I just picked this up and am reading the rules. Thanks for putting this together.


Let us know your thoughts after your first few experiences!
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Pedro Pereira
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i had another go on this game last night. We did a 4-player game. One of the players invested exclusively in the Market, really nothing else. At end game, when we tallied the score, she scored only market tiles and was still on 0 VPs.

I figured she would do that again since she won the game based on that strategy the last time. So this time my strategy was based on:

- quickly move as many meeples to the almanac as possible (I ended the game with 4 meeples there, so that's 7 VPs)
- Do minor investments on the market, only to try keeping up a bit with her whenever she would activate the market. In the end I think I scored about 1/3rd of the VPs she did.
- I also tried to push a 3rd generation meeple as quickly as possible to the top space at the City Hall and sold a total of 3 coins throughout the game, so in the end that scored me a total of 9+6 VPs
- I also managed to finish up with two meeples in the church on the middle space (worth 4 VPs each, although I did risk a bit too much there and almost lost 6 VPs). Having 2 meeples there I had majority so I earned an extra 2 VPs (which I have earned 1 or even 2 more times during the game)
- I completely ignored the travelling

So in all I managed to win with 47 VPs and the player who invested exclusively on market tiles had only 2 meeples on the almanac (so no VPs there) and shot straight to second position with about 36 VPs!!

So I managed to score about 12 VPs on market tiles, so yeah, not concentrating on market but always keeping an eye on it seem essential to winning this game.

Out of curiosity, how much do the winners score in your games?
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Roland W. est. 1984
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Last 4 Player Game I lost with 62 Points (next one had 65) ... Game before: 58 was the highest score.

Every time with TOTAL different strategy... But every one who won so far has at least bought 2-5 Market tiles...
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Pedro Pereira
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Interesting... that's a lot of points... how many rounds do you usually play? Seems you guys give each other a lot of time to do a lot of things... With us the games have been very tight so far with max. 4 rounds each time...

I'd guess you guys play at least 5 rounds?
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Gláucio Reis
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Pedrator wrote:
Out of curiosity, how much do the winners score in your games?

After a pair of two-player games, I played for the first time with four and won by a large margin with exactly 80 points. But at least two players were being very careful in spending time, and that may have prolonged the game a bit. I didn't count rounds, but it lasted 130 minutes.

I sold items every market day but one, occasionally to more than one customer, for a total of 30 points or more. I visited five cites, had one guy in the last space of the Council and ended with four in the Chronicles. I ignored the Church for most of the game, as the other three players went for it early, but I eventually put one guy there in order to use some spare grain, and I could move him to the second highest spot.
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Pedro Pereira
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Wow!! 130 minutes!!!! That's a LOT!

We barely play longer than an hour. Did you play many rounds or was it just that players had trouble deciding on what to do? 80 points almost double what we manage...

interesting...
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Gláucio Reis
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I think we did play many rounds. Besides, I was the only one who had played the game before. It didn't appear to me that they were generally taking too long to choose their actions, but the pace may obviously have been slower than with experienced players. We also filled the maximum possible number of spaces for the dead (one space left in the Chronicles).
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John Weber
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To pick up on this thread after a few weeks, today I lost to a player who glommed on to a very interesting City Hall strategy. Alot of his success had to deal with the fact that, for the first couple of rounds, other players left him alone which enabled him to get a jump start on this particular strategy. Nonetheless, he only won the game by a point although this can be a potentially killer strategy if the other players are unaware and unable to counter it, so I thought I would describe it in some detail.

When I first started playing Village, I kind of missed a part of the rules about the fact that you could use a City Hill action for FREE (i.e, paying no green cubes, scroll or time) if you simply chose the action and used an already established guy without putting in a new guy or pushing a guy forward. It seems the key space that you need to arrive at to fully execute this strategy is the third one, the one that lets you claim a good of choice for free. Unlike the final space where you can turn in a coin for 3 VPs (gaining a net 2 VP as the coin is worth 1 VP in itself), here you have the potential to generate a free good that can be turned into more VP either at the Market (i.e., a horse for 4 VP), or via Travel (a Wagon gaining 3 VP plus the VP for the incremental city, although at an additional cost in cubes).

In this game, the player using this strategy did not advance to the final spot until near the end of the game and actually did not age many of his workers, ignoring the VPs available in the Town Chronicle. He took the majority of the cubes each turn on the City Hall action, and later in the game, he frequently had a triple set of cubes to execute the action once all the City Hall cubes were taken. Most of his VPs came through trading the goods at Market, and he also seemed to scarf up just about every green cube in sight so he could do either multiple sales in one market action or respond if someone else triggered the market. He also earned a few points in Travel (although other players were more active there) and eventually had a minor share of the Church. Won with around 59-60 VP (four-player game), which is generally a winning score in my experience with 3 or 4 based on a dozen plays thus far. Yours truly wound up a close second, but only because a third player chose to extend the game another full round that gave me the chance to earn some more points via the Church and Travel locations.

Now, a few have commented to me that this use of the City Hall could possibly be "broken" although my sense is -- that like anything else -- if the other players let one player dominate in any one of the five main scoring categories (Market, Travel, City Hall, Church or Town Chronicle) -- that gives that player a huge edge in the game.

Any thoughts from those with experience from several plays? (NOTE: Around a dozen plays here, all 3 or 4 player, and I still think this game is the best of all the recent 2011-2012 releases with room for a variety of strategic options, as suggested by the OP in this thread.)
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Der Einsielder
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John Weber wrote:

Won with around 59-60 VP (four-player game), which is generally a winning score in my experience with 3 or 4 based on a dozen plays thus far.


The winning score mainly depend on the length of the game.
Sometimes ~45 VP is enough in a 3½-round game or you may need 65+ VP in a game where the 6th round is played (4 players).


John Weber wrote:

Now, a few have commented to me that this use of the City Hall could possibly be "broken" although my sense is -- that like anything else -- if the other players let one player dominate in any one of the five main scoring categories (Market, Travel, City Hall, Church or Town Chronicle) -- that gives that player a huge edge in the game.


It's not broken. It's like any other strategy in this game or even like strategies in other games - if one player has no pressure from other players to do other things than his optimal moves than he has a very good chance to win.

Our experience: This strategy can be a winning strategy . But there are several others that do as well...


John Weber wrote:

Around a dozen plays here, all 3 or 4 player, and I still think this game is the best of all the recent 2011-2012 releases with room for a variety of strategic options, as suggested by the OP in this thread.


Full ACK. Should get some of the gaming awards this year.

Der Einsiedler
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Seth Jaffee
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John Weber wrote:
When I first started playing Village, I kind of missed a part of the rules about the fact that you could use a City Hill action for FREE (i.e, paying no green cubes, scroll or time) if you simply chose the action and used an already established guy without putting in a new guy or pushing a guy forward. It seems the key space that you need to arrive at to fully execute this strategy is the third one, the one that lets you claim a good of choice for free. Unlike the final space where you can turn in a coin for 3 VPs (gaining a net 2 VP as the coin is worth 1 VP in itself), here you have the potential to generate a free good that can be turned into more VP either at the Market (i.e., a horse for 4 VP), or via Travel (a Wagon gaining 3 VP plus the VP for the incremental city, although at an additional cost in cubes).

If I'm not mistaken, you are allowed to choose any reward below the level you're at, so you could advance all the way to the top and still choose reward #3 each turn.
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John Weber
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Seth is correct, the Town Hall works alot like the favor track in Caylus in that regard.

As far as winning scores tied to the length of the game, one reason the scores were around 60 in our game was that the game got extended another round and so we had an extra church phase and more actions taken in the "extra" round (can't remember if it was the 5th or 6th), and people then had alot of non-black cubes to take without aging their guys, plus there was the fact that the people who were behind had less incentive to trigger the end (as well).

I am going to predict that this game is going to zoom up the charts once the Tasty Minstrel release hits the US market.
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Norberto Leiva
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Our first 2 games (2 players):

57-49: 4 full rounds filling the book. My gf won with a heavy market strategy (30 VP) and some decent scores in another areas. I focused in travelling (5 cities: 14+3 VP), Chronicles (12 VP), a few points from Church and Council, but just 10 VP from the market, definitly too few to catch her.

32-32: 2.25 rounds filling the graveyard. A very fast game because both burned a lot of time. My gf focused again in the market, but I trailed her as good as I could (19-14VP for her there). I got the edge in the Church (9-14VP for me including Mess prizes), and tied in Chronicles (4-4). Both of us ignored absolutaly Travels and the Council. She won thanks to one more customer tile in the tie-break.

I think Market can´t be ignorated, you need definitly score something there. That said, I think you still can win if you don´t lose too many VP in the market, and make it better in other areas.

I love how you can approach the game from different strategies: Heavy Market, Church/Fast burning time, maybe Travel/Council/long time game?...

Awesome game, totally agree that this is one of the best games in last years, it has become in my favourite worker placement game currently.
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Pedro Pereira
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Thanks for your feedback Norberto. I agree that this is a very good game and currently one of my personal Top 10.

It was nice to see how different your games were, from 4 full rounds to 2.25 rounds.

I agree with you and I think everybody does too, that the market should not be ignored. At least use it as a supporting strategy if you rather invest resources on other places. Using only the market can be easily countered, but as supporting strategy it turns into a winning strategy, but also takes the battlefield elsewhere and makes the game very tense and exciting.

I think the last time I played I won by combining City Hall/Church/Market, I invested mostly on the City Hall, did fair on the Church and just sold a few things on the market, but enough not to be squashed.
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Norberto Leiva
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2 more 2er games:

45-43: 3.25 rounds filling the graveyard. In this game, I experimented ignoring the market to focus on Travels and Council. This game was totally asymmetric. My gf swept the Market (31-0) and the Church (14-0). I got full Travels (0-24), Council (0-12) and Chronicles (0-7). Last Mass was critical: my gf had 2 workers in the bag, and she needed to take out both to win. She paid 1 coin to take the first one, and she got enough lucky to pull out his second one. In another case, even with a 31-0 loss in the market, I would have won by 1 point!. Of course both of us played sub-optimally (I finished with 4 grain bags in my farm and my gf made some tactical mistakes not scoring in the Chronicles Book), but this game showed me that it could be still possible to win ignoring the market!.

45-48: 3.9 rounds filling the graveyard. I tried a 'a bit of everything' strategy in this one. I started spending lots of sandglasses to fill craft and farm spots asap in the book, usually the first 2 categories to be filled, but I couldn´t avoid my gf got 2 spots there. As previous games, my gf only played for the Market, but I didn´t let her go too far (34-23, we used 3 times the well to activate the market!), and the Church (11-7). I visited a couple of cities (0-6), I had to kill a worker in the 3rd stage in the Council (0-0) but I got some free cubes and a good there, and finally I managed to avoid my gf put his 3rd worker in the Book, while I buried 6 there (0-12).

After 4 games, I am still discovering totally different strategies to win. I am specially surprised how nearly won our 3rd game, even scoring zero in the market!. This game is definitly awesome with 2, we like how you can look ahead next turns and control the endgame with the time-managament. I am curious how it works with 3/4 (it is sadly pretty hard for us to get a 3rd player).
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Kåre Dyvik
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Just finished a 4-player and 3-player game (my first two!). 3-player lasted 1 hour, but then we knew the rules better. Both games played very well, and I have a feeling this works just fine for 2 players, too.
I focused on travelling in the first game, and got 6 cities. Did not do very well in the market, though, and lost to the king of the market, who combined with a church career to win the game.

In the 3-player game, I chose to ignore travelling, and focus on a city hall/market combo. With 2 actions available for travelling, that gave my two opponents too much freedom in that area. But I discovered that city hall actions are easily exhausted, and felt that I couldn't exploit my position there as much as I had expected. Also, I neglected the church until there were only church actions left, so I had to spend some actions on the church instead, and got a bit behind there. I felt I did quite well all in all, but finished last anyway cry.

My conclusion is that you must focus on one or two areas, while not ignoring any of the other areas completely. Keep an eye on what the others are doing, and don't allow them uncontested access to any one area. The availability of each area changes subtly depending on the number of players, so what works in a 4-player game, doesn't necessarily work in a 3- or 2-player game. Interesting. And don't be afraid of spending time!
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Pedro Pereira
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Thanks for sharing your experience!

I think your final assessment is right. Regardless of what you do, always keep an eye on the market.

Also, in your second game during which you neglected the travel, don't forget that you can take cubes without doing any action, so next time you decide to reject the travel strategy, don't let that keep you from taking a cube from the travel area. You don't need to travel, but might get yourself a useful cube (like the green one if you invest in the city hall or which you can spend on the market for example), and also take away the chance of another player getting that cube.

Also, I've seen loads of posts lately of players neglecting the well, don't be afraid to spend some extra cubes (3 of a kind) to catch up if you feel you're gaping behind. This is specially useful if you're that round's start player, this means you get to play at least one action more than players who are unwilling to do the same.

Keep on playing!
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Tim Seitz
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Played 2er last night

61-45

End game scores by area:
Chronicle 12-7
Market 27-4
Church 6-4
Traveling 3-18
Council 0-6

Winner also had every Mass bonus (for 4 rounds)

The game-ending move was to go to crafts and take a black cube and drop a worker on the plow, using 8 time, killing a worker, and taking the last spot in the chronicle.

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Norberto Leiva
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out4blood wrote:
Played 2er last night

61-45

End game scores by area:
Chronicle 12-7
Market 27-4
Church 6-4
Traveling 3-18
Council 0-6

Winner also had every Mass bonus (for 4 rounds)

The game-ending move was to go to crafts and take a black cube and drop a worker on the plow, using 8 time, killing a worker, and taking the last spot in the chronicle.



Uhmm...adding part scores the total for the winner would be 12+27+6+3+ (4x2) (mass bomuses) = 56. Maybe the winner kept 5 coins at the endgame?. Loser total seems 7+4+4+18+6= 39 +gold?
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Tim Seitz
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tigrevasco_2003 wrote:
out4blood wrote:
Played 2er last night

61-45

End game scores by area:
Chronicle 12-7
Market 27-4
Church 6-4
Traveling 3-18
Council 0-6

Winner also had every Mass bonus (for 4 rounds)

The game-ending move was to go to crafts and take a black cube and drop a worker on the plow, using 8 time, killing a worker, and taking the last spot in the chronicle.



Uhmm...adding part scores the total for the winner would be 12+27+6+3+ (4x2) (mass bomuses) = 56. Maybe the winner kept 5 coins at the endgame?. Loser total seems 7+4+4+18+6= 39 +gold?

Those are "End game scores by area" and do not account for any points earned during the game, or coins at the end.
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Bob Archer
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After 5 games, all 4 player but one 3 player I have yet to see anyone above 50 final points.

Yet, I have seem people report winning scores of 80+... I just don't see it... I'll have to keep playing I guess.

Last nights, 4p game I won by one point...

I basically had 5 people in the chronicle, 3 disks in the traveling area, including the two 3pt bonus cities, 5 market tiles and 4 coins. I think my total was 48 points.

The second place player spent much time in the church. He also had a family member in the Town Council and traded coins for 3 points several times. He got 2 points every mass. He ended up with one point less than me.

The third place player had quite a few market tiles, I think 31 points worth, maybe 4 members in the chronicle.

So, what are the average winning scores people are seeing. As I said, in all my games it has been around 50... hear of these 80+ point games confuses me... unless they are 2p games where you can get more points?

Also, people say they are out of market tiles before the game ends. We usually have 5-8 left next to the board at game end.

BOb
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