Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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"You will, Oscar, you will"
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i want to go on record that i abhorrrrrrrrrrr! the wristbands.

Why not use a ink stamp for the con,on the right wrist just above the knuckles, in plan sight. if it wears off, very easy to replace


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twesterm wrote:
This is my first BGG.CON but why do we need to wear wristband for five straight days? Don't we already have a badge we have to wear?

If you want something cool and something people might actually keep, I know those rubber bracelets are actually pretty cheap if you order in bulk and they could be inscribed with the name of the event and year.

Just think, you could start a cool little tradition were each year is a different color or different saying.

Sure, you could take them off and I guess people could trade them but oh well? Is it really that big of a deal if I lend my badge/bracelet to someone else if I'm not going to go that day?

I guess I'm just a little confused why you need a badge *and* a wristband. I'm also not too excited about having to wear a wristband for five days...


As you are a first time attendee, as well as what some consider a local one since you have Texas as your state in your profile, I feel the need to warn you about what has transpired on this thread before you on this topic.

I brought up similar concerns about the wristband and was told I shouldn't attend. I was also told that because I am local I have questionable character, it is assumed I am trying to get individuals in the convention for free since I am local. Finally I was directly made fun of because of my hygiene concerns about the 5 day wristband.

So tread carefully my fellow Texan, tread carefully.
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Gnomish Mustard wrote:
Finally I was directly made fun of because of my hygiene concerns about the 5 day wristband.
With respect, your hygiene concern about wristbands is equally applicable to:

- wristwatches
- rings (wedding or otherwise)
- bracelets (and other jewelry)

Not to mention the people who don't wash their hands.
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Tim Gilberg
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Gnomish Mustard wrote:
twesterm wrote:
This is my first BGG.CON but why do we need to wear wristband for five straight days? Don't we already have a badge we have to wear?

If you want something cool and something people might actually keep, I know those rubber bracelets are actually pretty cheap if you order in bulk and they could be inscribed with the name of the event and year.

Just think, you could start a cool little tradition were each year is a different color or different saying.

Sure, you could take them off and I guess people could trade them but oh well? Is it really that big of a deal if I lend my badge/bracelet to someone else if I'm not going to go that day?

I guess I'm just a little confused why you need a badge *and* a wristband. I'm also not too excited about having to wear a wristband for five days...


As you are a first time attendee, as well as what some consider a local one since you have Texas as your state in your profile, I feel the need to warn you about what has transpired on this thread before you on this topic.

I brought up similar concerns about the wristband and was told I shouldn't attend. I was also told that because I am local I have questionable character, it is assumed I am trying to get individuals in the convention for free since I am local. Finally I was directly made fun of because of my hygiene concerns about the 5 day wristband.

So tread carefully my fellow Texan, tread carefully.


You just quoted a "fellow Texan" who expressed a desire to get others into the con for free as a local, and yet you still seem to think that pointing out that motivation for not having wristbands is unreasonable.
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David Debien
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twesterm wrote:
Is it really that big of a deal if I lend my badge/bracelet to someone else if I'm not going to go that day?


Yes. Yes, it is.
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leroy43 wrote:
Gnomish Mustard wrote:
Finally I was directly made fun of because of my hygiene concerns about the 5 day wristband.
With respect, your hygiene concern about wristbands is equally applicable to:

- wristwatches
- rings (wedding or otherwise)
- bracelets (and other jewelry)

Not to mention the people who don't wash their hands.


Not exactly the same thing. Rings are washed when people wash their hands, watches / bracelets aren't worn by all atendees 24/7, etc. I mentioned that it doesn't eliminate germs at the convention, but it does increase them.

But really its not open for debate, hygiene was a concern of mine about the wristbands whether you deem it so or not. I mentioned attending two BGGcons with the wristbands, and that I thought the convention was awesome. The hygiene thing wasn't a show stopper for me.

However just because I have a concern doesn't mean I need to be called a criminal and be attacked constantly about my concern. That's going way too far.

My original point stands the same, two new people came to this thread to say their concerns. Based on the hostility received by those with concerns (not just me) I feel the need to warn them about their posts on this thread.
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Joseph Cochran
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casualgod wrote:
twesterm wrote:
Is it really that big of a deal if I lend my badge/bracelet to someone else if I'm not going to go that day?


Yes. Yes, it is.


And it's precisely because that question is asked and needs to be answered repeatedly that the wristbands (or something similarly easily identifiable and non-transferable) are needed. soblue
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casualgod wrote:
twesterm wrote:
Is it really that big of a deal if I lend my badge/bracelet to someone else if I'm not going to go that day?


Yes. Yes, it is.

Agreed. Those of us traveling from far away and paying a pretty penny for it would love to bring all our game-group friends in too, but it doesn't work that way.

One ticket, one person.

The conference organizers plan for each "badge" to have some downtime and budget space and other resources accordingly. Say, for sake of argument, that that usage expectation is 75%. If you, as a local, hand your badge off to someone else when you have downtime, your badge usage goes to 100%. It doesn't take too many of these setups to throw ALL of the numbers out of whack.

Also, the conference costs real money to organize. Why should people get in for free? Plan ahead, buy a ticket, and don't rip off your fellow gamers by sharing your badge.

(Did I just talk myself INTO wristbands? I *hate* them but more and more, can see that they're needed. I'm so glad that they're willing to be reasonable about medical situations, or I wouldn't be able to go!)
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I can't stand having anything on my wrists, but I manage fine with the wristband. Every year they've had one, I've managed to wiggle it off and on as needed to shower or sleep. It's sturdy enough.
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Gnomish Mustard wrote:
But really its not open for debate, hygiene was a concern of mine about the wristbands whether you deem it so or not. I mentioned attending two BGGcons with the wristbands, and that I thought the convention was awesome. The hygiene thing wasn't a show stopper for me.

However just because I have a concern doesn't mean I need to be called a criminal and be attacked constantly about my concern. That's going way too far.


Honestly, for me it wasn't that you HAVE hygiene concerns, it was the out-of-the-blue extremely detailed expression of your concerns that reduced your credibility. If you had just said that you had concerns about hygiene that might have been one thing. But you opened your commentary in this thread with a three-paragraph post about fecal matter and bacteria that sounded more paranoid than you later professed to be. Go reread your first post: it's high on the detail and there is NO indication from you that you actually would still go to the con anyway. I like to occasionally go back and reread my posts to see why people might have misinterpreted what I meant. You might be able to do the same with those particular concerns.
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Gilby wrote:
You just quoted a "fellow Texan" who expressed a desire to get others into the con for free as a local, and yet you still seem to think that pointing out that motivation for not having wristbands is unreasonable.


Well let's see, did you make the accusation that I was doing this before, or after this "local" and first time attendee came forward to ask his question? shake

You are in Oklahoma, in Norman, 3 1/2 hours away from the convention. Houston, Austin, San Antonio,, etc are all within this same distance. Where do you draw the line for local?

Based on this, do you still stand by your accusation that all local people who have problems with wristbands are scheming to undermine BGGcon?

In your opinion where does the "supply" of these badge sharers reside? Are they all local? If so, how local?

What are your thoughts on having 800 (or more) additional attendees and demand for fake badges for all these locals?

Can you explain your theory how drawing attention to ones self by stating that you would prefer not to have a wristband helps sneak additional people into the convention, especially since this wont change the fact that the wristbands are here to stay?

Do you still find it reasonable to accuse everyone who doesn't like a wristband of being a criminal?
 
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jsciv wrote:
Gnomish Mustard wrote:
But really its not open for debate, hygiene was a concern of mine about the wristbands whether you deem it so or not. I mentioned attending two BGGcons with the wristbands, and that I thought the convention was awesome. The hygiene thing wasn't a show stopper for me.

However just because I have a concern doesn't mean I need to be called a criminal and be attacked constantly about my concern. That's going way too far.


Honestly, for me it wasn't that you HAVE hygiene concerns, it was the out-of-the-blue extremely detailed expression of your concerns that reduced your credibility. If you had just said that you had concerns about hygiene that might have been one thing. But you opened your commentary in this thread with a three-paragraph post about fecal matter and bacteria that sounded more paranoid than you later professed to be. Go reread your first post: it's high on the detail and there is NO indication from you that you actually would still go to the con anyway. I like to occasionally go back and reread my posts to see why people might have misinterpreted what I meant. You might be able to do the same with those particular concerns.


Edited because this came off a lot more harsh than I intended.

I agree that I could have worded things differently, and there are times I wish I didn't say things the way I did in posts and in real life. But I mean honestly does a poor choice of words warrant the type of accusations I received? Why not ask for clarification or something instead of jumping right in and telling me not to come and to stay in my plastic bubble?
 
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Jeff Anderson
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A reminder, specifically the emphasis I've added below.

CaptainQwyx wrote:
Ok, this has been a healthy (and at times overly-vigorous) discussion. Since registration is opening later today, I'll let y'all in on where my thinking is for this year so you can decide whether to click that "register here" link or not.

1 Wearing a wristband around your wrist is required for the duration of your stay at the convention.
2 Medical conditions will be accommodated on an individual basis, usually by pinning the wristband to the outer layer of clothing.
3 A cut wristband can be exchanged for a new wristband for $5 and showing your badge and photo id.
4 Wearing your badge is required while in the meeting spaces of the con, partly for the small security effect, but mostly for the "social contract" of the convention, making it easier to meet new people.

While I'm not ruling out alternative solutions for the future, and I'm by no means shutting down discussion of such solutions (though I would like to curtail discussions of the discussion of such solutions, if you catch my drift...) I would also like to let you know some of the reasons so far they have fallen short of current practices:

1 Nothing has yet matched the low logistical cost of the wristbands from the organizers perspective
2 We hold our convention in a hotel, open 24/7. We do not have secure entry points - there are other guests of the hotel who have every right to be in the area, going to their own meetings and such.
3 We are not only trying to secure the library, but the whole convention experience. The wristbands allow for easy security checks in a variety of situations - at the library desk, in the flea market line, at tournaments, etc.
4 Believe it or not, my goal in the running of this show is to make it as informal as possible. Too much "government id" flashing around makes it too impersonal in my mind.

We still do a lot of this show on the honor system, and it has rarely been a problem. I think y'all are great, and helping to run this show is one of the highlights of my year. There's no other show out there quite like it. We're not WBC, Origins, GenCon, or Essen, and we don't want to be. We will continue to try to run the best gaming party on the planet.
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jsciv wrote:
casualgod wrote:
twesterm wrote:
Is it really that big of a deal if I lend my badge/bracelet to someone else if I'm not going to go that day?


Yes. Yes, it is.


And it's precisely because that question is asked and needs to be answered repeatedly that the wristbands (or something similarly easily identifiable and non-transferable) are needed. soblue


If that's the policy then that's the policy and I'll respect that, just as a newcomer it's odd to see these rules.

I like going to various cons of all types and I don't think I've ever seen one that has you have two types of proof you paid on you and except for ones that exclusive to certain people like E3 they don't really care if people share badges.

I actually wasn't planning on sharing mine (convinced my friends to go :-D), it's just something that I don't see as that huge of a deal. I get that you potentially lose a sale if loaned my badge to someone but you could also gain a sale for next year.

This is a convention that apparently sales out so I could Definately see why locals might share badges. The guy that told me about this missed out last year because he didn't preorder in time. If I went last year and I wasn't going one day, I would probably loan him my bage. It's no extra work on the conventions part since its the same number of people but more people get to experience the fun. Just helping out a friend, not trying to rip off BGG and be a "criminal."

But again, the rules are the rules and that's that. Just my two cents and can't wait for November! :-D

(and Definately a local, live less than 20 minutes from the hotel ^^)
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That is not Depeche but rather
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twesterm wrote:
If I went last year and I wasn't going one day, I would probably loan him my bage. It's no extra work on the conventions part since its the same number of people but more people get to experience the fun.

And that's where your assumption is wrong. I posted this info on the first page, but here it it again:

Re: Is Time Sharing a pass allowed?
CaptainQwyx wrote:
We would know as we will likely be using wristbands this year in addition to the badges for security purposes.

And we would care as our seating models and table counts factor in a utilization percentage, so if magically every badge had 100% usage (due to time-sharing), it would get a lot more crowded. And see the security comment in the first paragraph - the person using the library needs to be the person who's name is on the badge.


Re: Is Time Sharing a pass allowed?
CaptainQwyx wrote:
Here is the disconnect. It is not assumed or planned that you will come for the entire con.

In fact, quite the opposite. At least on a macro-scale. We know that not everyone will attend for the entire con. Over the years we've gotten decently good at planning the right number of badges for the space and chairs we have access to, and it's not exactly one-for-one. Certainly one or two instances is lost in the noise, but when asked to make a public policy decision for all, we must be conservative.

However, the crowding is the "weaker" reason. It it much more important to us to have traceability in the use of the shared resources we provide at the convention.
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David Debien
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twesterm wrote:
If I went last year and I wasn't going one day, I would probably loan him my bage. It's no extra work on the conventions part since its the same number of people but more people get to experience the fun. Just helping out a friend, not trying to rip off BGG and be a "criminal."


Ugh. And insurance fraud is a victim-less crime as well.

Look, the point is that it would create extra work. The convention organizers plan for something less than 100% of badge use when planning rooms and table space. As a person who paid for the convention, I would be annoyed at not getting to check out a game or not have table space due to others badge sharing.
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Digren K
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twesterm wrote:
jsciv wrote:
casualgod wrote:
twesterm wrote:
Is it really that big of a deal if I lend my badge/bracelet to someone else if I'm not going to go that day?


Yes. Yes, it is.


And it's precisely because that question is asked and needs to be answered repeatedly that the wristbands (or something similarly easily identifiable and non-transferable) are needed. soblue


If that's the policy then that's the policy and I'll respect that, just as a newcomer it's odd to see these rules.

I like going to various cons of all types and I don't think I've ever seen one that has you have two types of proof you paid on you and except for ones that exclusive to certain people like E3 they don't really care if people share badges.

I actually wasn't planning on sharing mine (convinced my friends to go :-D), it's just something that I don't see as that huge of a deal. I get that you potentially lose a sale if loaned my badge to someone but you could also gain a sale for next year.

This is a convention that apparently sales out so I could Definately see why locals might share badges. The guy that told me about this missed out last year because he didn't preorder in time. If I went last year and I wasn't going one day, I would probably loan him my bage. It's no extra work on the conventions part since its the same number of people but more people get to experience the fun. Just helping out a friend, not trying to rip off BGG and be a "criminal."

But again, the rules are the rules and that's that. Just my two cents and can't wait for November! :-D

(and Definately a local, live less than 20 minutes from the hotel ^^)


Film festivals and conventions regularly oversell, and are very strict about badge sharing. SXSW Film, for example, sells both badges ($395 and up) for full convention access, and also passes ($75) for locals. Locals who buy the lower price one have to get in line after badges, so they rely on the fact that a lot of badge people leave halfway through the festival (or spend time on the Interactive or Music conventions instead). SXSW Music does similar with their badges ($595 and up) and wristbands ($175 IIRC).

Fantastic Fest in Austin has regular and VIP badges, where they only sell enough VIP badges to fill one theater. (That allows them to guarantee that each VIP badgeholder can get into their first choice film in every time slot. For the 2011 and 2012 fests, the VIP badges sold out in about 20 and 30 seconds, respectively. Yes, seconds.) Anyway, they also sell daytime-only badges, assuming that many people with full badges will stay up late and sleep in. They also sell second-half badges, assuming that many people with regular badges will leave after the first weekend. (Most films show twice during the fest, and the talent and directors only stay for the first half.)

Oversell and play the (very consistent) odds ensures that they get maximum revenue while keeping the rooms full. It makes sense, and it relies on no badge sharing.
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Digren wrote:
twesterm wrote:
jsciv wrote:
casualgod wrote:
twesterm wrote:
Is it really that big of a deal if I lend my badge/bracelet to someone else if I'm not going to go that day?


Yes. Yes, it is.


And it's precisely because that question is asked and needs to be answered repeatedly that the wristbands (or something similarly easily identifiable and non-transferable) are needed. soblue


If that's the policy then that's the policy and I'll respect that, just as a newcomer it's odd to see these rules.

I like going to various cons of all types and I don't think I've ever seen one that has you have two types of proof you paid on you and except for ones that exclusive to certain people like E3 they don't really care if people share badges.

I actually wasn't planning on sharing mine (convinced my friends to go :-D), it's just something that I don't see as that huge of a deal. I get that you potentially lose a sale if loaned my badge to someone but you could also gain a sale for next year.

This is a convention that apparently sales out so I could Definately see why locals might share badges. The guy that told me about this missed out last year because he didn't preorder in time. If I went last year and I wasn't going one day, I would probably loan him my bage. It's no extra work on the conventions part since its the same number of people but more people get to experience the fun. Just helping out a friend, not trying to rip off BGG and be a "criminal."

But again, the rules are the rules and that's that. Just my two cents and can't wait for November! :-D

(and Definately a local, live less than 20 minutes from the hotel ^^)


Film festivals and conventions regularly oversell, and are very strict about badge sharing. SXSW Film, for example, sells both badges ($395 and up) for full convention access, and also passes ($75) for locals. Locals who buy the lower price one have to get in line after badges, so they rely on the fact that a lot of badge people leave halfway through the festival (or spend time on the Interactive or Music conventions instead). SXSW Music does similar with their badges ($595 and up) and wristbands ($175 IIRC).

Fantastic Fest in Austin has regular and VIP badges, where they only sell enough VIP badges to fill one theater. (That allows them to guarantee that each VIP badgeholder can get into their first choice film in every time slot. For the 2011 and 2012 fests, the VIP badges sold out in about 20 and 30 seconds, respectively. Yes, seconds.) Anyway, they also sell daytime-only badges, assuming that many people with full badges will stay up late and sleep in. They also sell second-half badges, assuming that many people with regular badges will leave after the first weekend. (Most films show twice during the fest, and the talent and directors only stay for the first half.)

Oversell and play the (very consistent) odds ensures that they get maximum revenue while keeping the rooms full. It makes sense, and it relies on no badge sharing.


I've been to many conventions where they have different levels of passes and only make sure to have enough room for the top teir. That's perfectly acceptable. I don't know if it's the best deal for this, I'm only guessing, but you would probably have some trouble if most the attendees couldn't play games.
 
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First off, like I said, I completely respect the rules and have no plans to badge share. It's not allowed here and not even going to think about it. I still think the bracelets are pretty excessive but not a deal breaker in any way. It makes perfect sense to be extra secure when checking out games and ID should absolutely be shown.

That said, insurance fraud? That's a pretty big leap. I see it closer to lending a book or game or even selling a used game. It's not like people are going to make schedules where they use a badge all hours of the day, it's would be "hey, I'm not going Friday, want to give this cool thing a try?". If anything, it brings more money to the vendors which is good for everybody.

Also, and now I'm just curious about this 100% thing, what happens on Saturday when I assume most badges are being used?

(and I finally made it to at least page 5 of this thread. I stopped after the second page before when it was more about fecal matter and pointless bickering. I just have to point out that it's funny people think you're going to sight see in Dallas while you're badge sharing. There's not much to do in DALLAS besides eat;-))

Also, ignore typos as I'm sure there are a lot. I'm on my iPad since I'm too lazy tonight to get to my pc.
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I am all for what the convention would like to use. It is not that big of an inconv. I would like to see maybe an upgrade to a gel one? Something cheap that you can use or allow us to buy extra a buck or two? Just a thought./DOC
 
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I want to again thank Jeff and friends for putting on an amazing con and for being patient and hearing us out. I would wear a barbed wire wristband for 5 days to go to BGG con, so don't think this small inconvenience in any way diminishes BGG con in my eyes.

Also, thanks to the mods of BGG for returning civility to this discussion, and thanks to everyone on both sides of the debate for the constructive discussion that has taken place since the law was laid down. Cheers.
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John McGeehan
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Docsven wrote:
I am all for what the convention would like to use. It is not that big of an inconv. I would like to see maybe an upgrade to a gel one? Something cheap that you can use or allow us to buy extra a buck or two? Just a thought./DOC


The gel wristbands are easy to take off and give to someone else, which is one of the exact scenarios the wristbands are meant to prevent.
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David Debien
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twesterm wrote:

That said, insurance fraud? That's a pretty big leap. I see it closer to lending a book or game or even selling a used game. It's not like people are going to make schedules where they use a badge all hours of the day, it's would be "hey, I'm not going Friday, want to give this cool thing a try?". If anything, it brings more money to the vendors which is good for everybody.


Yeah, I wasn't trying to say Badge Sharing was akin to Insurance Fraud. I was just trying to point out that a lot of people commit insurance fraud because they dont perceive it as hurting anyone. In actuality, losses from insurance fraud does hurt everyone who buys insurance as those costs are pushed back tot he consumer.

Same deal with badge sharing. If a high level of badge sharing were to be present, it would reduce the facilities available to paying guests, and further reduce the number of spots the Con organizers could offer in the future. As this is a sold out event, we want the organizers to be able to maximize the number of tickets they can sell so that everyone who wants to go, can go. Ultimately, for every 1 or 2 badge sharers taking up resources this year, that will be one less space available to the Con next year and less revenue for BGG, which they richly deserve for the hard work they put in to make BGG.Con my favorite one to attend.
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Digren K
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twesterm wrote:
I don't know if it's the best deal for this, I'm only guessing, but you would probably have some trouble if most the attendees couldn't play games.


Most attendees can't play the hot games simultaneously, which I think is the closest analogy. They have to wait.

twesterm wrote:
Also, and now I'm just curious about this 100% thing, what happens on Saturday when I assume most badges are being used?


On Saturday the line for the hot games gets really long. Fortunately a lot of people were able to play them earlier in the week, when lines were shorter due to many badges not being used.
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