ackmondual
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
As many of you probably haven't noticed (and are right to do so) or have and simply don't care, Pegasus introduces the 4th way for humans lose, which is literally killing off all of your playable characters. While in theory, it seems possible....

start with 10 Morale
14 after 4 successful Inspirational Speeches
15 after the admiral nukes a basestar and succeeds in Major Victory
16 after passing... oh, Colonial Day
17 after Zarek's OPG
18 after playing Eulogy somewhere in between the executions

in a 5p game that's 12 human characters to kill (16 if playing with Exodus).

.... in practice, team human will have died through Morale. If not that, centurions, Galactica (even after destroying Peggy), and Food are still further up the queue.

There are countless discussions how losing through destroyed Galactica is less likely since Peggy came to town. Don't get me wrong, it's still rare, but I guess if it does happen nowadays with Peggy, I guess you can get "style points", much like when cylons win without revealing.

I've always wanted to introduce a variant where too many human executions results in a loss for the humans, but in truth 1) there were more prominent problems with executions, 2) Galactica damage holds more sway, and 3) record executions one Peg only for us in a single game was 5. 2 from crisis cards, 2 more from overzealous use of Airlock and Cain + AQ, and Resistance HQ on NC. Realistically, such a case STILL won't occur anyways, so much like some actual games of BSG, it doesn't matter.

To address the "problem" of that lose condition not occuring enough, my variant calls for that if a 5th human is executed, humans automatically lose. It would be a step in a better direction for those who say NC is too easy anyways. Thematically, too many of the important people are being lost, so separate from the Morale dial, they've lost their will to go on.

If someone gets a chance to try this out, let me know how it works
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
GRRRRR!!!
badge
GRRonimo!
mbmbmbmbmb
Exodus introduces a lot more ways for characters to get "randomly" executed (trauma, allies, final five, some crises... etc)

How about instead of insta-losing after 5 executions, it just increases the morale hit to -2 per execution after that point?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M. B. Downey
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Actually it is only 10 humans to kill in a five player game before you run out. Two humans will still be alive when the third human player cannot pick a replacement character.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Klaus
Austria
Vienna
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You can play Eulogy repeatedly, and you can play Preventive Policy on Morale prior to executing someone.

And they just covered their bases with that rule, it's not intended to be a valid Cylon strategy to win.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ackmondual
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hannibal Rex wrote:
You can play Eulogy repeatedly, and you can play Preventive Policy on Morale prior to executing someone.

And they just covered their bases with that rule, it's not intended to be a valid Cylon strategy to win.
I could argue that throwing in Pegasus and the rules about damage tokens was never meant to make winning by destroying Galactica as easy as it was in the base game, but that hasn't stopped the countless threads and variants trying to "fix" that
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Hurd
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Maybe it's just me, but I would think that you'd want to have the number flex based on the number of players. As in, if you have N executions, where N equals the number of players, humans automatically lose. That seems more balanced to me over the full run of games. I know that 5 players is the optimal number, but sometimes you don't get that, and you play with what you have. It seems weird to have 5 executions be the target number in a 3 player game.

The whole idea is that loyalties are effectively revealed after N - C executions, where C = number of cylons. So execution #(N - C + 1) isn't as "necessary" as the others. Even if you end up executing a cylon with it, having missed the cylons every time before that, you're still kind of gaming the system.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M. B. Downey
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
It's not like you change the number of damge tokens, centurion spaces, or resources (ignoring the NS variant) when changing the number of players. Why should executions be any different?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Hurd
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Matt: Because the number of loyalty cards does change based on the number of players. It should be different because it is based on a different system.

I understand the basis of your argument, but I think looking at it in absolute numbers doesn't make sense. My counter-argument is that the rate of destruction is roughly the same.

The ability to win the game based on any of the ways you've sited is fairly constant. 1 cylon in a 3 player game can advance his win condition exactly as fast as 2 cylons in a 6 player game, when viewed over the course of a round. The 5 player game is pretty close to that rate as well. The sympathizer can swing things to a more harsh rate, which is one of the reasons I (and other people who share my view) don't like the sympathizer. This is influenced by luck of the draw, in the form of the crisis deck, which also advances at the same rate, somewhere around 1 card per turn.

In contrast, there's no rate for showing loyalty cards. You create a set of them at the start of the game, deal some out, deal some others out, and that's it. However, as I mentioned, the information of revealed loyalty cards becomes more valuable as you approach the number of humans in the game.

I guess the main point I was making is that 5 executions in a 3 player game is a ludicrously high number. That's statistically unlikely. If the cylon player had so much control that he could afford 3 executions, he'd just have won by other means. Strategically he'd be better off with 2 briggings than 3 executions.

That point is tempered by the fact that based on Ackmondual's first post, 3 executions in a 5 player game would be too low, in his opinion. I'm just trying to work within that structure. Hopefully I've made a decent case.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mooseared Ferenczy
United States
Athens
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmb
I'm going to echo what Hannibal said. I only really viewed this win condition as a 'what if' to cover all possible bases, because random chaos says it will happen at least once. But you guys have fun all the same.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M. B. Downey
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Your reasoning is flawed. Loyalty cards are handed out pre and post sleeper, so it might not be "proven" in a 3 player game until 5 executions, assuming each player only gets executed once per loyalty card.

Also, if we throw in Exodus rules, as the title of the post encourages, then the numbers are all off.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ackmondual
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
downeymb wrote:
It's not like you change the number of damge tokens, centurion spaces, or resources (ignoring the NS variant) when changing the number of players. Why should executions be any different?
Many of variants posted by BGG users such as "Pegasus is a damage sponge" have nothing to do with # of players. They're set for any # of players. This variant is the same way. I used 5p just as an illustrative example of how theoretically, a 5p game can end on that loss condition. There's no correlation with a 5p game = 5 executions. I just used one game where the most # of executions was 5 as some arbitrary #. 3p to 7p, still 5.

Again, this topic is a bit of a joke for something that was an extreme corner case (hence the quotes around "problem") anyways.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M. B. Downey
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
thumbsup
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.