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Subject: So, is this okay in your guys' opinion? rss

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Drew Hicks
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Raleigh
North Carolina
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First game, one guy chose his power based on a faulty understanding of the rules (which I valiantly tried to explain through a wall of no-longer-paying-attention)

PLAYER: Does this power mean I can basically teleport my guys?

ME: Yes, but the way movement works in this game, you can sort of do that anyway. This is sort of a subtle change... The difference is, with that power, your territories don't need to be connected...

PLAYER: Sweet! I can teleport my guys! (ignores)

ME: ...whereas most other factions can only move between any two connected territories... oh, you already stuck it to the card. Ok, I guess we're starting.

After the second game (and the misunderstanding was cleared up)...

PLAYER: WHAT!? How can he do that!?

ME: Um, do what? He just moved his armies...

PLAYER: But he can't teleport them like that!

ME: No, look, they're connected... *traces*

PLAYER: UGH THIS POWER IS USELESS

...this player wouldn't stop griping about the mistake he made. I suggested we replace it, since I didn't want the entire future of my game to be shaped by a rules misunderstanding (and a seriously bad one at that) but was barked at by the other players...

CROWD: NO! WHAT'S DONE CAN NEVER BE UNDONE!

Little did they know that I threw all the used cards in a "garbage bag". They weren't torn up, so... I undid it. I replaced that power with the other power as soon as I got home. I doubt that that PARTICULAR player group will be playing the game again (multiple players expressing vocal hatred of the "dumb" game) so I feel my revisionist history here is justified.

Will I be reincarnated as a louse for doing this?
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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AnEvenWeirderMove wrote:
Will I be reincarnated as a louse for doing this?

Yes. You should have put that player in a garbage bag.
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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Seriously, one alternative might have been to quietly explain to that player that it's good that he chose a "useless" power for that faction, because most of the time, that faction will belong to his opponents, ha ha.

(But if you don't think that group will play again, why bother messing with the sticker? Who cares what some-guy-with-poor-listening-skills-who's-not-there-anyway thinks?)
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Drew Hicks
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Because SOME of the same group are playing again, and honestly, because the other power is legitimately much more interesting (in all of our opinions).

Were I opening the game anew, I'd have done all that setup communally before the first game (as it is written anyway), before anyone chose their first game's faction.
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James Buchanan
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Maryland
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No you shouldn't have changed it. And here's a hint. All the starting powers are pretty useless.
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Branko K.
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Here's what I read:

PLAYER: I can't be bothered with the rules. I'm choosing this because it sounds cool.

*later*

PLAYER: Wah wah wah my choice sucks and it's all your fault, I demand special treatment wah wah wah.

So no, IMO, it's not ok.
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Drew Hicks
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I'd like to point out that I'm not doing it for that player. That player will, in all likelihood, not be playing the game again. I'm doing it for the players who are sticking around, so they don't have to suffer that player's (apparently?) poor decision even though he's no longer around.

Seems the consensus is that I shouldn't have done this. I don't think I feel bad, though. I suppose I'd rather have a fun (though "wrong") experience with my next 13 games than preserve the integrity of that player's mistake, but I still think it's interesting to hear from the internet on topics like this

I think perhaps players ought to have to have played at least one game to completion on the world before being permitted to make a permanent change, though
 
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Michael Yang
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Quite clearly, what has been done can be undone. You made the right decision by making yourself happy. The game will not be broken, and your experience will probably be improved because you switched to the less weak power (you will find that both SR powers are fairly equivalent).

If the naysayers object, just tell them that nothing is being undone. On your particular Earth, faction powers sometimes evolve.
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mar hawkman
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yeah that power is no more useless than the other one.
 
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Steven
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Spokane
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What is done cannot be undone. They knew the risks playing the game when they started. Plus you tried to warn him. Perhaps your friend will think before he acts next time.

However:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Who knows, perhaps another addition later will make this power... not so useless? whistle
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mar hawkman
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Perhaps.
 
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Diz Hooper
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Osaka
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You should have kept the original power, but since you've already made the change it's too late. What seems like a useless power now at the beginning of the game may actually turn out to be more powerful as the game develops and rules are added or changed. Only time will tell now.
 
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Dave Caldwell
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AnEvenWeirderMove wrote:
...this player wouldn't stop griping about the mistake he made.


This is the far more important issue than the power swap. Don't invite him back to your next game.

When he should pay attention he doesn't; when he shouldn't pay attention he does.

Life is too short to have these people at the game table.
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Mr Punter
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I'd say not ok in my world, but ok if that's what you decided in yours.

We had a slightly similar mis-understanding which meant the same power ended up on the Saharan Republic. The player chosing was more used to old Risk where you'd have territories across the board so chose it for that reason thinking it would be more powerful than a mid-turn maneuver.

In the first few games we referenced the weakness of the choice a few times but as we had actually destroyed the other power, had no chance to change. Plus our group bought into the destroying so would of been mortified to think it was getting changed after.

A couple of things have since happened that have made it less weak as a power but I still don't think the faction has won a game and we're 8 games in.
 
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Gary Heidenreich
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What makes that power useless?

We have that power and I used it in the second game. When my supply line was cut off, I was able to move my reinforcements over to the cut off party.

Pretty useful to me.

It makes it easier to push across the map with that faction
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tom brown
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Stanley
Co. Durham
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i chose that power and wish id picked the other one, as i didnt realise how quick these games were compared to normal risk, and being able to move my troops before making an attack would be much more useful for a blitzkreig manouver to quick victory.

I hope later on in the game this power becomes more useful.
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Michael Yang
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At the beginning of the game, the Maneuver during any point of your turn is more useful than the other starting faction power.

Since your supply lines cannot be cut off during your turn, the cost of connecting your supply lines with troops is usually cheap enough that the ability to maneuver before your attack more than makes up for the small cost.
 
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Aaron Christensen
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Georgia
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I had a player make a similar decision with a different army, he choose what he wanted despite a group discussion. However, 12 games in, that army is one of the most powerful in our games, and is always picked first. (Things change there is no reason to worry about a badly made choice, things have a way of working themselves out in this game.
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Steven
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bop517 wrote:
What makes that power useless?

We have that power and I used it in the second game. When my supply line was cut off, I was able to move my reinforcements over to the cut off party.

Pretty useful to me.

It makes it easier to push across the map with that faction


In my opinion it is a little more situtational than the other Saharan republic starting power. However it can be very useful in the situtaion you stated.

Note: This spoiler contains a lot of stuff from later packets.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Combined with the blue "comeback" power which allows you to place your new units in any empty on the board, either one of the Saharan republic powers can bevery scary. In our game the normal Saharan republic player takes Australia and then starts teleporting guys around attacking anyone who gets another continent. Combined with the merc scar he placed it is even more annoying. He places his new units in a random space in Europe, Asia or N. America and then maneuvers his merc troops there too. Then attacks.

We started taking over every territoriy just to prevent this!
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Gordy Crozier
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SW_Cygnus wrote:
bop517 wrote:
What makes that power useless?

We have that power and I used it in the second game. When my supply line was cut off, I was able to move my reinforcements over to the cut off party.

Pretty useful to me.

It makes it easier to push across the map with that faction


In my opinion it is a little more situtational than the other Saharan republic starting power. However it can be very useful in the situtaion you stated.

Note: This spoiler contains a lot of stuff from later packets.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Combined with the blue "comeback" power which allows you to place your new units in any empty on the board, either one of the Saharan republic powers can bevery scary. In our game the normal Saharan republic player takes Australia and then starts teleporting guys around attacking anyone who gets another continent. Combined with the merc scar he placed it is even more annoying. He places his new units in a random space in Europe, Asia or N. America and then maneuvers his merc troops there too. Then attacks.

We started taking over every territoriy just to prevent this!


This a thousand times over! The only bad thing is I can only thumb it once! Choosing what you think at the time to be a weak power so often the game changes how life works and this can become so useful. Its one of the reasons I love this game as whats useful now may become not so much and what seems weak becomes so important.

In terms of this player, it serves him right for not listening. I would make it my job to kill/eliminate him at least one to teach him a lesson. My justice is without mercy. FINISH HIM
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Pax
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I also know some guys, who are not listening well or just cannot remember the same rule after explaining it to them several times.
This really annoys me.
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Beer be with you.
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Northlake
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Settlers of Catan does not improve with your house rules. The best option if you don't like the rules as written is to just select another game.
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What?
 
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Drew Hicks
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Yeah, I basically figured something like that would be the case with this power. It's a shame that the use of it wouldn't become apparent for several games. :/
 
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Jerry Alan Sayers
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Johnson City
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I don't think you did wrong, if it's something that all the people who will regularly play the game are happy with. After all, it is your game, and if having that starting power makes everyone disinclined to play that faction, I don't think changing it is terrible. I have to admit that although we are happy with the options we chose for 4 of our factions, we now wish we'd chosen the other starting power for Die Mechaniker, and because we play a 4-player game, they are almost never chosen. I've considered proposing we switch to their other starting power (we have saved the 'destroyed' cards under the tray in the box) to make them more appealing--but only if all four regular players are interested in doing that. Of course, we still have one envelope and both bins left to open, so perhaps they will change our minds about that, or make it a moot point. In fact, even with what we've now seen, their power doesn't look as bad as it did early on.
 
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Chris
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Marysville
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Normally, I'd say do whatever you think results in a positive play experience. However, changing the faction power is in violation of the responsibility your group assumed when they presumably signed this document:



An oath signed on the back of a game board is not something to be taken frivolously, but with the highest of resolve.
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