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Subject: Mayday Games on Kickstarter & Deniath rss

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Alison Chen
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Mayday Games has Weykick game for $109.99 with FREE SHIPPING on Deniath. Just last month they completed a kickstarter project that offered $129 (or $135 depending on the surface) plus $20 shipping for the same exact game. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/maydaygames/weykick-dext...

As one of the backers for this project, I find it rather upsetting to almost angry, especially with all the promises and guarantees that were made:

"This project may very well be your ONLY chance to get WeyKick in the USA, and the price will NEVER be better!"

"We can guarantee that we will NOT be offering this game so cheap ever again"


Will the difference be refunded to the backers? I hope so. I hope Mayday Games will offer a solution that meets their customers' expectations.
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Matt Shinners
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Huh. Seems like they're about to get themselves in trouble, if someone wants to push this.
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Bruce Voge III
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Well you see Mayday is not selling Weykick cheaper. Sure they are only US importer, but its Deniath that is cutting the throats of the kickstarter supporters.

....and it VERY WELL may be your only chance...it happened to not be, but they didnt promise anything.

This same thing happened with promo stuff for Get Bit! , they clearly stated in their kickstarter that certain items (the pink robot I believe) you would ONLY BE ABLE TO GET ON KICKSTARTER. Then changed that to mean...AT THAT MOMENT. You know, the moment before the game was available.

This just seems to be what they do.

Bruce
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Richard Keiser

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Let's see... the product is Mayday's. Mayday is selling it to Deniath at a cost that allows Deniath to sell it BELOW the kickstarter pledge price AND allow them to make a nice profit.

Not sure how Deniath is responsible for this? Mayday made the deal. Mayday broke the assumed pledge defined by the kickstarter project. If there is a virtual bloody knife, it is firmly planted in Seth's hands.

In the end, what do you expect from Mayday? I like Deniath, so I hope this doesn't affect them too negatively.

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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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This sounds like it has potential to become episode 27 in the Hiatt Saga.
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Manchuwok
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MattShinners wrote:
Huh. Seems like they're about to get themselves in trouble, if someone wants to push this.


About to???
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Matt Shinners
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manchuwok wrote:
MattShinners wrote:
Huh. Seems like they're about to get themselves in trouble, if someone wants to push this.


About to???


Not "people on BGG are questioning their quality" trouble; actual, legal trouble.
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Tim Gilberg
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darthhugo wrote:
Let's see... the product is Mayday's. Mayday is selling it to Deniath at a cost that allows Deniath to sell it BELOW the kickstarter pledge price AND allow them to make a nice profit.


Or not.

What's the MSRP on these? $200 or so? That means the cost to a distributor is about $50.
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Lacombe
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People are seriously still giving this company money?
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Richard Keiser

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You are right, any conjecture about costs or profits are just stabs in the dark.

This is really about Mayday requesting funding for a project with the inherent understanding that the only way that this will be available for purchase at the unbelievable price of $129 is via the Kickstarter pledge system. That isn't marketing hyperbole, but actual clear English terms... some call that a contract.

Not only does it shaft the supporters, but it makes a mockery of the entire Kickstarter model. To boot, the supporters are actually losing money for supporting the project.

1/believeable.
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Hugh G. Rection
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Someone better take a screenshot of the Kickstarter page before it gets "revised".
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Jon Bowker
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While reading this post, I just got an email about getting a free invite to Deniath, because I am on MD's new's letter, to take part in a limited 3-day sale of mayday products. Great marketing or are the machines taking over?
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Craig.
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manchuwok wrote:
MattShinners wrote:
Huh. Seems like they're about to get themselves in trouble, if someone wants to push this.


About to???

Sadly, this is nothing new for Mayday. There has been issues and/or controversy surrounding nearly all, if not ALL, of their Kickstarter projects:

thumbsdown Eaten by Zombies! - Shipping problems; "exclusive" Zombie Die sold outside of Kickstarter. [LINK]

thumbsdown Get Bit! - Shipping problems; "exclusive" Get Bit! Sharkspansion and Pink Robot sold outside of Kickstarter. [LINK]

thumbsdown Kingdom Builder - CANCELED due to exclusive license "issue." [LINK]

thumbsdown White Elephant - Kickstarter price was $20, but the game picked up by Mayday AFTER it funded; DELAYED; MSRP dropped to $14.99 and then dumped on Tanga for $9.95 before most Kickstarter backers even received their copies! [LINK]

thumbsdown Click Clack Lumberjack - Shipping problems; "exclusive" Toc Toc Woodman: Golden Axe Expansion and Toc Toc Woodman: Golden Core and Bark Promo sold outside of Kickstarter.

thumbsdown Terra Evolution - Shipping problems; "Number" scandal (games were opened so that a limited edition number sticker could be affixed to the box; people did not receive the numbers promised at each pledge level); sold game at discount (with coupon) on web site. [LINK]

thumbsdown Lemonade Stand - "Exclusive" promo cards made available outside of Kickstarter. [LINK]

thumbsdown WeyKick - Sold for $129+$20=$149 via Kickstarter with the following guarantees: "We can guarantee that we will NOT be offering this game so cheap ever again and if it ever does get into retail stores it will be on a very limited basis and the retail price will just have to be higher than this." and "This project may very well be your ONLY chance to get WeyKick in the USA, and the price will NEVER be better!" Sold via Deniath.com on 3/19/2012 for $109.99. [LINK]


I tried to include some links to BGG threads, but just read through the comments for each Kickstarter project to get a better idea of the issues.

I learned my lesson due to the problems I had with the Get Bit! project and EVERY pack of Mayday cards sleeves that I have purchased. I don't understand why anybody would back any Mayday Kickstarter project. Mayday is dishonest and seems to be plagued with issues and continuously surrounded in controversy. I can no longer support Mayday or purchase ANY of their products.
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Craig.
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Hugh_G_Rection wrote:
Someone better take a screenshot of the Kickstarter page before it gets "revised".

HERE
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Tim Gilberg
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darthhugo wrote:

This is really about Mayday requesting funding for a project with the inherent understanding that the only way that this will be available for purchase at the unbelievable price of $129 is via the Kickstarter pledge system. That isn't marketing hyperbole, but actual clear English terms... some call that a contract.


But price fixing isn't possible. While Mayday might not sell it at that price again, if it gets into a distribution/retail system Mayday can't really control the price. I'm hard pressed to see the statement as anything other than a statement that they wouldn't sell it for less in their web shop nor put it at a MSRP that would likely see it sold for less.

Heck. Look at the quote: "We can guarantee that we will NOT be offering this game so cheap ever again and if it ever does get into retail stores it will be on a very limited basis and the retail price will just have to be higher than this." The MSRP is indeed higher than the price they offered at.

Quote:

Not only does it shaft the supporters, but it makes a mockery of the entire Kickstarter model. To boot, the supporters are actually losing money for supporting the project.


I'm sorry, but what's the Kickstarter model? Is Kickstarter meant for games that are only available through the Kickstarter offer, never to be released at retail? That doesn't seem correct to me. It seems rather like a glorified pre-order system and, like other pre-order systems, the item being offered will end up being distributed. And if an item is being distributed then it can end up very deeply discounted.

I don't really see anything different about the butthurt over this than the butthurt toward Valley games when Hannibal was sold cheaper than the direct preorder by online retailers or the butthurt toward Z-Man when Agricola was sold cheaper than the direct preorder by online retailers. And there was plenty of loud complaints over those games.

I'm not saying that I support Mayday Games. I'll continue to mostly avoid Mayday products due to not trusting the quality control--and I'll completely avoid any sort of preorder from them for the same reason. But there's really no reason to see a problem with an item, once distributed, being sold at prices under a direct preorder price.
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Richard Keiser

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To be honest, I don't frequent kickstarter that often, but aren't there standards based on past issues? I can see giving a newb the benefit of the doubt for a mistake, but serial offenses need to be prevented.
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Richard Keiser

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False premise to supporters. Simple. Done.

FWIW, this project is just a glorified distribution issue, not a development project. I'm surprised this crap even made it onto kickstarter... are they that desperate for warm bodies?

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Richard Keiser

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This isn't the case of someone else feeding the distribution chain, which would be understandable... this is a matter of the benefactor of the kickstarter "project" feeding the market at a price THEY KNOW will be lower than their kickstarter model.

Apples, meet oranges.


Gilby wrote:
darthhugo wrote:

This is really about Mayday requesting funding for a project with the inherent understanding that the only way that this will be available for purchase at the unbelievable price of $129 is via the Kickstarter pledge system. That isn't marketing hyperbole, but actual clear English terms... some call that a contract.


But price fixing isn't possible. While Mayday might not sell it at that price again, if it gets into a distribution/retail system Mayday can't really control the price. I'm hard pressed to see the statement as anything other than a statement that they wouldn't sell it for less in their web shop nor put it at a MSRP that would likely see it sold for less.

Heck. Look at the quote: "We can guarantee that we will NOT be offering this game so cheap ever again and if it ever does get into retail stores it will be on a very limited basis and the retail price will just have to be higher than this." The MSRP is indeed higher than the price they offered at.

Quote:

Not only does it shaft the supporters, but it makes a mockery of the entire Kickstarter model. To boot, the supporters are actually losing money for supporting the project.


I'm sorry, but what's the Kickstarter model? Is Kickstarter meant for games that are only available through the Kickstarter offer, never to be released at retail? That doesn't seem correct to me. It seems rather like a glorified pre-order system and, like other pre-order systems, the item being offered will end up being distributed. And if an item is being distributed then it can end up very deeply discounted.

I don't really see anything different about the butthurt over this than the butthurt toward Valley games when Hannibal was sold cheaper than the direct preorder by online retailers or the butthurt toward Z-Man when Agricola was sold cheaper than the direct preorder by online retailers. And there was plenty of loud complaints over those games.

I'm not saying that I support Mayday Games. I'll continue to mostly avoid Mayday products due to not trusting the quality control--and I'll completely avoid any sort of preorder from them for the same reason. But there's really no reason to see a problem with an item, once distributed, being sold at prices under a direct preorder price.
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Craig.
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Gilby wrote:
darthhugo wrote:

This is really about Mayday requesting funding for a project with the inherent understanding that the only way that this will be available for purchase at the unbelievable price of $129 is via the Kickstarter pledge system. That isn't marketing hyperbole, but actual clear English terms... some call that a contract.


But price fixing isn't possible. While Mayday might not sell it at that price again, if it gets into a distribution/retail system Mayday can't really control the price. I'm hard pressed to see the statement as anything other than a statement that they wouldn't sell it for less in their web shop nor put it at a MSRP that would likely see it sold for less.

Heck. Look at the quote: "We can guarantee that we will NOT be offering this game so cheap ever again and if it ever does get into retail stores it will be on a very limited basis and the retail price will just have to be higher than this." The MSRP is indeed higher than the price they offered at.

Quote:

Not only does it shaft the supporters, but it makes a mockery of the entire Kickstarter model. To boot, the supporters are actually losing money for supporting the project.


I'm sorry, but what's the Kickstarter model? Is Kickstarter meant for games that are only available through the Kickstarter offer, never to be released at retail? That doesn't seem correct to me. It seems rather like a glorified pre-order system and, like other pre-order systems, the item being offered will end up being distributed. And if an item is being distributed then it can end up very deeply discounted.

I don't really see anything different about the butthurt over this than the butthurt toward Valley games when Hannibal was sold cheaper than the direct preorder by online retailers or the butthurt toward Z-Man when Agricola was sold cheaper than the direct preorder by online retailers. And there was plenty of loud complaints over those games.

I'm not saying that I support Mayday Games. I'll continue to mostly avoid Mayday products due to not trusting the quality control--and I'll completely avoid any sort of preorder from them for the same reason. But there's really no reason to see a problem with an item, once distributed, being sold at prices under a direct preorder price.

Doesn't Deniath work similar to Tanga whereby the manufacturer/publisher directly provides product for sale as evidenced the message that Mayday sent out to its e-mail list earlier today to promote the "Deniath Private Sale - 3/19 to 3/22" and provide a free invite.

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Nick King
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NateStraight wrote:
People are seriously still giving this company money?


I don't get it either.
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Richard Keiser

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Gilby wrote:

...We can guarantee that we will NOT be offering this game so cheap ever again and if it ever does get into retail stores it will be on a very limited basis and the retail price will just have to be higher than this." The MSRP is indeed higher than the price they offered at.



You did the famous switcheroo there. Referring at first to selling price, then redirecting to MSRP.

Most would construe this guarantee to be about the selling price.

Who the efff even thinks about MSRP as an evaluator or comparison? Its just a marketing term, not a real-world number.

Seriously.

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Gavan Brown
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Quote:
What's the MSRP on these? $200 or so? That means the cost to a distributor is about $50.


Distributors generally pay 35-40% MSRP.
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Tim Gilberg
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RoosterJuice wrote:
Quote:
What's the MSRP on these? $200 or so? That means the cost to a distributor is about $50.


Distributors generally pay 35-40% MSRP.


Ah, my bad. I was misremembering what I'd read, and this thread: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/779276/suppose-i-go-rogu... makes that clear.
 
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Cliff Roberts
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shigadeyo wrote:

Doesn't Deniath work similar to Tanga whereby the manufacturer/publisher directly provides product for sale as evidenced the message that Mayday sent out to its e-mail list earlier today to promote the "Deniath Private Sale - 3/19 to 3/22" and provide a free invite.



And the coolest part? Mayday probably gets the $10 referral credit for everyone who signs up on Deniath through them! What a sweet deal!! Yay for Mayday!!!
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Alison Chen
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For those of you who backed this kickstarter project and feel you've been deceived like I do, please leave a comment on the project page, or better yet, send a message to Kickstarter too!

Project's Comment Page: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/maydaygames/weykick-dext...

Contact Kickstarter: https://kickstarter.zendesk.com/requests/new
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